Unnamed Trialist

2 hours ago, TFC2017 said:

Maybe I don't fully understand it, my bad

No, I was just totally bullshitting, making it up, you understood it as well as anyone else. But we had fun while it lasted. Sorry.

On 24/9/2017 at 0:01 AM, TFC2017 said:

That may be the case for some players but for these 2 specific players it's simply a mistake by whoever uploaded the information. 

2 hours ago, Jith12 said:

I'm confused. If he has no connection to Chile then why is it listed as his second nationality?

There are a lot of Canadian players listing Chile as a second nationality lately, as a way of getting an EU passport. This is related to a recent WHO ruling on acquired genetic traits, what is called soft inheritance. If you can get your Chile nationality recognized as a Canadian, you can fast track your EU status and even pass it on to your children, so we can get multiple generations of Canadians under the Chile flag, also known as La Roja, like Canada, Reds, playing in European lower tiers. If we don't have a thread on this on the board you should probably start one.

6 hours ago, Big_M said:

Higher salary in this case doesn't necessarily mean higher level of play of the league when it comes to comparing with d4 spain or italy. .....Unfortunately a lot of overestimating pro leagues here and not understanding that the level of training and development is much much higher there which means that even lower leagues are of high quality

This eve I went to a 4th tier league match, Horta, a Barcelona suburb, vs the Espanyol B team, played at a very high technical level, very fast, huge pressure on the ball, strong tactical and positional play, with some real technical talent (and a massive brawl at the end, punches and all). Of course a B team of a Liga side is going to have that kind of player, and they won handily. This game was higher quality than the Whitecaps USL I saw this year. But this was exceptional. For a kid from Spain to be in 4th tier means little, for a Canadian to be exposed to it, might mean a lot for development. 

Just to be clear, 2B is one thing in Spain, fourth tier Tercera quite another. One offers living salaries and is professional, the other means basically just speculating on your future with no immediate dividends.

Like in other lower tiers, the teams with big stadiums, aspiring to promote, with a fan base and sponsors, can pay more. But that is like 10% of the 80 teams in Spanish 2B, the rest are modest. An example, don't know if I ever posted this: I saw a stat on twitter references to the 80 teams in 2B last year, Extremadura, where Hume was, in the top 5, they have followers around the world, and were getting over 5000 out to games and late in the season even more. Izarra, Piette's team, was fourth from the bottom in social media interest, they have no proper web, no community manager, nothing, they are bare bones. I don't think they ever got a thousand out to a game. This is why I emphasized what Piette was doing with that team, just staying in the category. Watch them this year (Aparicio): I think they'll relegate.

But let's be honest, until MLS raised their minimum wages only a few years ago, there were players having problems paying their bills who could not save at all (in 2008 it was at 33 grand, with some developmental players making a thousand a month), alongside the high-priced DPs. Now that has changed, because up to less than a decade ago it was shameful.

1 hour ago, BCM said:

I think among the non-academy teams (and that's really what they are, unfortunately) I'd say there's 5-9 players per team that would laugh at the suggestion of moving to Spain/Italy 4th or 5th tier - and if they did so would be taking a more than 50% pay cut. Case in point, Jamaica had at least three players on its Gold Cup roster from USL. Remove those 5-9 players, and then those levels may be on par.

I can't say that I have seen much 4th and 5th tier football in Spain and Italy, but just that a lot of USL players would see it as a drop, and their bank account would certainly drop.

PS - there's a lot of former Premier and 1st (2nd) division English clubs in Conference and League 2 now - doesn't mean that they're still good! Yeovil Town was in the Championship in 2014 and now in Conference. Swindon and Oldham were Premier League teams - what does it mean now? Nothing.

From what I have read USL salaries might average around 2000 US a month, with some teams paying 2-3 grand a month. Only for the season and preseaon, so a few months without pay. Often including housing. There is no minimum, so many could be making less. That is similar to 2B in Spain. 

It is only worth seeking out chances in Europe, in all lower tiers but especially-Spain, if 

-you have an EU passport and can live and work freely where you want. 

-you are young and believe you have a real chance to rise and improve your status, or want the competitive experience. 

-you happen to latch onto a stronger club that can pay a bit better and aspires to promotion; or if it is a B team of a higher level club.

-you happen to have some reason for being in that place, like having family nearby, or can even work in something else part time to compensate. 

5 minutes ago, TFC2017 said:

Serie D has many teams who were previously even in Serie A. Como, Messina and Varesa as well as many teams who have reached the heights of Serie B. Italy and Spain's 4th and 5th divisions are of a higher level or equal in quality to the USL.

When I watched USL this summer, all I thought was how much less pressure there was on the ball defenisvely, it was soft, players had time. They also seemed to be pacing themselves for long spells--or coasting. Spanish 2B, or third tier, has a higher pace and defensive mentality, more pressure on the ball, sharper overall sense of tactics, and better decision making. It is not pretty, because your rival does not let you get fancy. 

4 hours ago, BCM said:

Did I say anything about Pantemis? I just said, implicitly, that Breza signing for a D4 team shows he's nowhere near national team level. Your argument/question regarding the suitability of Pantemis for the national team does not detract in the slightest from my statement. Breza is nowhere near ready.

Piette was playing for the national team when he was playing in Spanish D4. We also took players from the bottom club of Spanish D4 to our recent friendlies in Qatar, u-23 I guess. It is not a matter of the division, strictly speaking, it is a matter of what the coach thinks. 

But I agree that, in principle, when choosing senior NT players, you have to look a bit higher, the quality of Italian or Spanish lower tiers notwithstanding. 

Andrew das Neves Lebre has now signed for SD Almazán in Spanish 4th tier, Tercera. So he's left Ourense for the Tercera group in Castilla-León, that is Tercera (4th tier) Group 8. His agents report this on their web, JEP Sports Management:

http://www.jepsportsmanagement.com/Perfil-jugador/index.php?id_jugador=961

He is also on the team roster on the federation website. 

He was not in the squad, and probably not yet signed, last weekend. They are playing their 2nd league game today vs. the Burgos 2nd team. 

Almazán is a small city in the province of Soria, he is going to freeze his butt off there in winter. A noble yet austere town with nice Castillian architeture on the Duero River, but a bit isolated in football terms. I just assume they are paying him a bit better than what Ourense would have offered, since I imagine he could have stayed if he'd wanted.

5 hours ago, Toje said:

According to transfermarkt, he is on loan from Peña Sport de Tafalla until June 30th, 2018.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/yuri/profil/spieler/483328

That is good then. Historically, in this region, Peña Sport is the strongest club after Osasuna, though they all struggle once into 3rd tier and higher, going up and down. What is surprising is that you have 80% of players who are Basque-Navarre, only a few non-Basque, and rare to find a foreigner.

5 hours ago, Toje said:

According to transfermarkt, he is on loan from Peña Sport de Tafalla until June 30th, 2018.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/yuri/profil/spieler/483328

That is good then. Historically, in this region, Peña Sport is the strongest club after Osasuna, though they all struggle once into 3rd tier and higher, going up and down. What is surprising is that you have 80% of players who are Basque-Navarre, only a few non-Basque, and rare to find a foreigner.

6 hours ago, Toje said:

Yuri Ruh Dos Santos has left Trencin (Slovakia) and is now with Corellano in the Spanish 4th tier.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/124856154264683/permalink/1458420627574889/

I believe he is on loan from a 3rd tier team Peña Spor FC. 

Good find. Corellano is in Corella, in Navarra, I only know the name because they play a preseason friendly tournament vs. Izarra each year. So that is the Navarra division of Spanish 4th tier, Tercerca, Group XIII.

If he is on loan from Peña Sport de Tafalla, that is a good club they are in 2B, also in Navarra, just across the Ebro and up the road. 

2 minutes ago, Zem said:

That's not him, vaguely similar to the hairstyle he used to have, but different player.

Thanks. As I said, he was not on the roster list for this year, but is still unattached. Then, that player is wearing Misik's no from last season, thanks for helping out. 

Patryk, get a team already!

44 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Interesting, Bijker left Heerenveen to sign with Cadiz in the Spanish 2nd Division. A LB born in '93, he played in 2 matches for Netherlands U21 squad. Definitely worth a look.

What I think, he was just signed by Cadiz. A left back, left-footed, they say he can also play CB. Unlikely to get more bites with the Dutch national team. Born in Brazil and Brazil-Dutch nationality. So not sure if he holds CDN as well. 

Patryk Misik it seems is back with Órdenes in Spain.

I just assumed he'd leave as they relegated to 5th tier, now in Preferente Galicia, Group 1. To update Canucks Abroad, that is Spain, 5. 

I don't seem him listed on the roster, on a slim website, but there are only 17 on it; but here he is from a tweet from today's preseason game, he's no 8 if I'm not mistaken. 

Just going through the Canucks Abroad list for Spain. 

Chafik Naceri signed for Alcorcón B, fourth tier (tercera) in early 2016, and from what I see made one appearance for them, that season, not this past. I do not see he is still on their roster, nor was he this last season. In any case, Alcorcón first team is now 3rd tier.

Lucas Bijker, the Brazil-born Dutch is listed as a Cadiz player. I am just not sure what his Canada connection and links are.

I don't believe Patryk Misik is playing for Ordenes, as they dropped to 5th tier. Last I saw he was playing amateur in Toronto this summer. 

Andrew Lebre does not appear on the roster of Ourense who promoted to 4th tier. It may be pending, but I do recall reading he was keen to go to England. I have not seen him on a new team yet. 

Clearly we have to wait a bit to see what these guys do for teams. 

Miki Cantave has moved on a free transfer from the B team of Albacete, to the B team of Lorca. This is a lateral move, as both clubs just promoted their A teams to the Spanish 2nd division for this season. And both have their B team in 4th tier. 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/lorca-fc-b/startseite/verein/53611

He went on a free transfer on July 25. The team seems to be basically u-23 and as we stand, at 20, he's their youngest player. They play in the Murcia division, a small region but quite competitive for its size. Here's their schedule, from what I see they should aspire to make the promotion playoffs.

https://futbolme.com/resultados-directo/equipo/la-hoya-lorca-cf-b/12930

IMO being at Albacete or Lorca is about the same, the former has more tradition, but Lorca has new owners, a Spanish group who bought it from former Chinese player Xu Genbao a few days before Cantave was picked up. Wish him the best of luck.

1 hour ago, shamrock said:

Collin Miller loves to pick-up these Canadian players with some kind of abroad experience.

Misik arguably had a better season than Aparicio, even though the team was hopeless. I am basing this on having read about a dozen game reports and seen summaries of all. 

Go for it Colin!!

Patryk Misik, Aparicio's teammate at Ordenes last season, is now unattached and looking for a new club. Acc to this Brazilian site from Toronto (thinks me), he is looking at offers from both Spain and North America for now. 

https://www.canadasporting.com/2017/06/22/entrevista-no-cs-patryk-misik-abre-o-jogo-ao-canada-sporting-e-fala-sobre-sua-situacao-no-sd-ordenes/

The story is from a week ago. Talks about representing Canada, most recently in Qatar, not getting called up ever by Poland in spite of playing there young, his time at Fury. Very positive attitude.

6 hours ago, jpg75 said:

Izarra are in 2B, third tier.

Primera = 1

Segunda = 2

Segunda B = 3

Tercera = 4

That is right.

The national federation controls the first three tiers, the Tercera's all pertain to an autonomous community (like CDN province). Manny was in the Tercera division from the region of Galicia, north-west, where Sam was too at Deportivo, and Fisk, and where Andrew Lebre will likely play this upcoming year with Ourense.

There are four divisions of 2B, and it is officially pro. They have to redo the divisions each year to accomodate new teams, and travel problems (teams from the Canary Islands, Mallorca, or the African cities like Melilla). Izarra does not have its rivals or schedule yet. 

After Tercera, every region decides how things are going to be, though usually there are 3 or four more tiers, with more and more divisions. I think 8 is the max in tiered, pro-rel Spanish football. In Spain, if you want to compete, you start a club, do the paperwork, and start in the bottom division, and all teams get in, they are obliged to let them in. There are hardly any private academies not in federated competition. You can also be an existing club and buy someone out, but only in Tercera and below.

It is rare to be paid in Spain after 5th tier, and even fourth, Tercera, can be nominal at times, or players are coaching youth and the like.

Manu Aparicio has signed for Sam Piette's club, Izarra. In this Spanish site he appears in his Canada shirt

http://www.lapreferente.com/J210826/sdc-ordenes/manny-aparicio.html

I was a bit floored by this, first, since no one else saw it, it was announced June 16, and I missed it too. Second, he played for a team that was dead last in their group in Spanish 3rd, 4th tier, a division lower than Izarra´s 2B. So it is a huge step up for Manny, who is born 95 and hasn't turned 21 yet.

13 hours ago, Toje said:

Dieu Merci Yuma has signed with Sedan (French 4th tier) from Portuguese 4th tier side Electrico.  He had 21 goals in 15 games this season.

Ryan Reid has also signed with Sedan.  He played with Yumas this past season in Portugal.  Both players are 21 years old.

http://www.lardennais.fr/37297/article/2017-06-23/cinq-recrues-sedan

We are starting to get quite a few players in very modest lower divisions in Europe, starting to be a good wide base. Have to hope that some of them start to move up, though in these divisions it is pretty hard to go from a multi-division tier to a single national division, it is a big step up.

I was expecting Toje to post this, as he just sent me the tip by pm and some details, I researched it a bit more.

Spencer Hubble, who is a GISS academy player, signed in January for the u-19s of Leganés, in Spanish top flight. He is with their u-19 C team. I am not sure if he's played yet, so wondering if he's not 18 yet and can't.

Will start posting more on Bakr Abdelaoui, born Finland but raised Montreal, who we have listed correctly: he was also a GISS Academy player, signed for Getafe last spring, then for Leganés B in fourth tier start of this season. And is playing, more and more so, though I think he's a '97, so young, ,but if he is playing for the competitive reserve side of a La Liga club we should be paying more attention. He's a tricky mid from what I gather.

On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎19 at 7:03 PM, Complete Homer said:

I'm going through the Canucks Abroad database for an article in an attempt to identify where each player trained. I've noticed one player who needs updating, I'll post more as I notice them.

Ross Harvey has moved from Geelong SC (AUS) to Auchinleck Talbot FC (Scotland) which is 6th (?) division

http://www.transfermarkt.com/ross-harvey/profil/spieler/61000

Hi CH, read this a few days ago but have to ask: what do you mean? Do you want to know what their youth club was, is that it?

1 minute ago, jpg75 said:

Agreed, this is a distressingly low level for JGL to have landed. He should have at least have signed in Championnat National (3rd tier) which is around NASL level.

Jeffrey, unlike Spain the French 3rd tier is a single division (18 teams) and the 4th tier is 4 divisions (64 teams), so although Spanish football is superior at the top 2 tiers it is more watered down from the 3rd tier down.

Okay, did not realize that, did not used to be that way. Recall following Red Star Paris when they were 3rd tier.

I think there are two theories about this. A full national tier 3 raises the quality level, you have 18 (France) to 24 (England) so that is maybe 200-300 players with pro contracts but modest ones. It is watchable football, maybe a lot of journeymen, it is usually physical, but younger players can really learn a lot. I think England has the strongest third tier in the world, even being diluted by too many teams.

But it also causes some cost difficulties, since you have to travel a lot for your budget and level. France is an easy country to travel across, Spain is not, even with high-speed trains you are going to have teams on islands off the coast of Africa.

In Spain 2B teams struggle, as there is no glamour or prestige. You play teams from a quarter of the country, and most are not attractive beyond. I went to a 2B match Sunday with 4500 fans, but it was a stadium inauguration in a big working class suburb, Badalona, vs. the Espanyol B team. Hume's team has big crowds, but there are maybe 6-8 across four divisions with 20 teams each, maybe 8 of 80 that have strong draws, good stadiums, and capacity to handle being a division up. The rest are close to being semi-pro the way sponsorship has collapsed in Spain, they get 500 fans out and players make 30 grand a year if lucky.