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Ruud

Most important topic not discussed by Canadian soccer community

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  • Champions League not on TSN or Sportsnet
  • EPL not on TSN or Sportsnet starting next year
  • CPL not on TSN or Sportsnet
  • What's next?  MLS?

Is it me, or is this an emerging crisis for soccer in Canada (in addition to making hard core fans buy new subscriptions)  How will we grow the game in Canada without average sports fans having exposure to soccer games and highlights.  Why is no one discussing this?  And more importantly, what are all the soccer media guys going to do next year? 

 

 

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Not sure there is a solution and there seems to be a similar concern with my friends to the south as well.  Streaming networks such as DAZN are taking over these games.  Adapt or die and cable tv is dying.

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15 minutes ago, Ruud said:
  • Champions League not on TSN or Sportsnet
  • EPL not on TSN or Sportsnet starting next year
  • CPL not on TSN or Sportsnet
  • What's next?  MLS?

Is it me, or is this an emerging crisis for soccer in Canada (in addition to making hard core fans buy new subscriptions)  How will we grow the game in Canada without average sports fans having exposure to soccer games and highlights.  Why is no one discussing this?  And more importantly, what are all the soccer media guys going to do next year? 

 

 

Yup you nailed it my friend but apparently no one watches  regular tv anymore according to many on these boards. Everybody watches stuff on their phones so it seems many on these boards don’t seem to care. However,  just by the Champions League being on DAZN this year I’ve noticed like it feels like it’s not even happening. I’ve noticed less talk about it even amongst my soccer loving friends. You hardly see any coverage of it in the mainstream media anymore or even on TSN or Sportsnet during their sports news shows .  Let’s not kid ourselves regular TV is still watched by the vast majority and you take soccer off regular TV and this could be a grave grave mistake . A person turns on the TV and does not see hardly any soccer anymore, it will be out of sight out of mind and it will be a sport those immigrants play mentality  creeping in again in this country. At a time where we have the potential of maybe putting a good Canadian men’s national team together and starting a national league along with having three MLS team that so far have been attracting good crowds , having no Champions League and now no English Premier League on regular TV is not good in my opinion. Moreover, with all these TV soccer personalities losing jobs is also not good for the game . I hope the powers that be yes you CSA try to at least lobby the TSN and Sportsnet of the worlds to reconsider because no soccer on regular TV expecially high quality soccer like the Champions League and the English Premier League is not good for the popularity of soccer in Canada which will have an effect to what is dear and close to the vast majority on these boards the men’s national team and the CPL.

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Seems like there is a story here somewhere - did Bell and Rogers underbid for these assets?  Are the advertisers bailing on Saturday morning or Wednesday afternoon content?  Did they expect to be undercut by internet only channels?  And what's next?  Seemed to me that the sports channels were the ONLY assets worth keeping on the old cable TV subscriptions? 

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The same way businesses are moving onto on-line platforms, so it is with media.  I compare DAZN as the Amazon of sports and are able and willing to outbid competitors (with the help of Middle East ownership).  They already have the NFL, English, Pakistan and West Indies cricket, Six Nations Rugby and Serie A, Ligue 1 and La Liga.  I don't think TSN or Sportsnet can compete with that as they don't have enough visual platforms.. 

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17 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Seemed to me that the sports channels were the ONLY assets worth keeping on the old cable TV subscriptions? 

The only reason I would ever keep cable to be honest.

Currently DAZN offers Champions League, Europa League, Serie A, La Liga, Ligue 1, MLS along with multiple cups and many other sports such as MLB & NFL.  I can only imagine they will get the rights for more leagues shortly.  They do this and for a fraction of the price.

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5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The same way businesses are moving onto on-line platforms, so it is with media.  I compare DAZN as the Amazon of sports and are able and willing to outbid competitors (with the help of Middle East ownership).  They already have the NFL, English, Pakistan and West Indies cricket, Six Nations Rugby and Serie A, Ligue 1 and La Liga.  I don't think TSN or Sportsnet can compete with that as they don't have enough visual platforms.. 

Visual platforms which means what?  Seems to me they both have streaming services akin to DAZN?  They put up replays and highlights and can get ads based on clicks and views on their sites.  What am I missing? 

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The focus of Bell and Rogers is on traditional media (TV) with the online stuff being an add on or even an after thought.  Even the content that TSN has on TSN Go isn’t well publicized and unless you know to look there, you’d miss some sports that their 5 channels won’t carry because of capacity.

DAZN is purely online so can run many streams at the same time which is why every single Champions League and Europa League group match can be watched.  It also isn’t under CRTC rules -as far as I can tell.

I am still a big fan of TV (I’m in that 45-54 demographic) but I’m paying a lot to Bell these days and am wondering if it’s still worth it for their Fibe service and that thought should be concerning to TSN and Bell.

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50 minutes ago, 1996 said:

Yup you nailed it my friend but apparently no one watches  regular tv anymore according to many on these boards. Everybody watches stuff on their phones so it seems many on these boards don’t seem to care. 

People watch these streaming services on their TVs. There is a growing population that will never get cable again. These content owners realise that and are making sure they can monetise their streaming rights now and in the future.

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I really enjoy DAZN. It is quite nice to have access to all major football leagues and competitions (sans Bundesliga) in my pocket, anywhere I go. I know some of the cable providers have mobile solutions (Telus Optik on the go, for example) which allows you to watch cable TV on a mobile device. The real differentiating factor is the ability to cast the DAZN app to any screen, the Telus solution doesn't allow that. 

For example, I can go visit my mom on a weekend and not have to scramble to watch a match if she doesn't have the right cable subscription package.  I just cast DAZN on to her TV. 

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3 minutes ago, Corazon said:

The only reason I would ever keep cable to be honest.

Currently DAZN offers Champions League, Europa League, Serie A, La Liga, Ligue 1, MLS along with multiple cups and many other sports such as MLB & NFL.  I can only imagine they will get the rights for more leagues shortly.  They do this and for a fraction of the price.

So here's my question though.  How do they grow the market for soccer viewers?  This is segmenting fans into streams and extracting as much economic rent as possible from each one.  Might work in sports which are really well saturated but is it going to work in sports for which viewership is nascent and has the potential to expand?  Or will they just count on the general "sportsfan" to eventually sign in for all their sports needs? 

Not that advertisers care, but my mother is one who loves soccer but who will clearly be left behind by our 21st century market segmentation in sports

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ruud said:

So here's my question though.  How do they grow the market for soccer viewers?  

 

 

 

 

 

I think the discussion could be split here, from a Canadian soccer standpoint, into two groups.

1.) Canadian Soccer viewers (i.e the MediaPro deal)

2.) European Soccer viewers 

Now, obviously there is a lot of cross over between the two groups, but I think the key in your first post is how this affects Canadian soccer and growing that market. As this has been stated a ton before, I think it will be important for the CanPL to have a presence in both cable and streaming worlds: a DAZN + TSN/Sportsnet/CBC arrangement allows you to capture all your potential markets (youth who stream, or older generations still attached to Cable TV). 

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15 minutes ago, Ruud said:

So here's my question though.  How do they grow the market for soccer viewers?  This is segmenting fans into streams and extracting as much economic rent as possible from each one.  Might work in sports which are really well saturated but is it going to work in sports for which viewership is nascent and has the potential to expand?  Or will they just count on the general "sportsfan" to eventually sign in for all their sports needs? 

Not that advertisers care, but my mother is one who loves soccer but who will clearly be left behind by our 21st century market segmentation in sports

 

 

 

 

 

I think you got it pretty spot on when you state that there is a generation that is gonna be left behind with this transition.  But for all future generations and many now are going to either grow up with it as the norm or will have to adapt.  I for one am adapting because technology is not going away.  Personally I like the thought of having any soccer game available to me.  In fact, I think this will allow people to see more soccer from around the world in lesser leagues.  For example, if we as Canadians want to watch Cavallini play in Mexico or David in Belgium, or Tabla in lower levels of Spain we can get online and stream the games now.  Cable never offered this to viewers but unfortunately there will be a generation who get left behind.

The platforms that youth have to soccer videos/clips today is far greater today than in past generations.  You can watch training videos, practice videos etc.

Lets also not pretend that this is just affecting the sports fans.  Netflix, Hulu, Amazon are all prime examples leading to the slow death of cable.

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I understand both sides of it.  The idea of "extracting as much economic rent as possible from each" fan is absolutely the business they are in.   But I also agree that there is the potential to cause the footy market to contract due to a resistance to the subscription model at a time when footy was just starting to saturate the market and gain widespread acceptance. 

The loss (by traditional broadcasters) of Champion's league has been really eye-opening.  Previously, I wouldn't have missed a matchday unless I had something else going on.   When I got home from work on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, I commandeered the TV (to my kids' chagrin) and didn't give it up.  This year, I have barely caught a game, forget they are even happening, and hunt around for streams on the rare occasion I remember to look.

If that is the situation with someone who has ingested a steady diet of televised (mostly European)  footy for the last 25 years, you have to think that relegating content to a pay-walled platform will reverse the trend of mainstream acceptance.   

 

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Posted (edited)

I havent had cable for years and got DAZN this year and I can't see myself going back now. 

@1996 you say that it feels like CL isn't happening this year, but for me I feel more immersed into CL than ever now that I have DAZN. I can watch games on delay and watch them on my own schedule. Plus, I have access to all the games.

I do miss the old days of coming home from school and turning on the TV and watching CL, but those days are the past now. Cable TV is dead for better or worse.

Edited by Obinna

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I think I'm the opposite than most for CL.  I have IPTV at my condo so I don't have access to the Rogers/Bell online stuff - the ability to just stream DAZN in the background ("background") at work and listen to CL has been awesome.  The added access to basically every other relevant available league except Bundesliga and local MLS is great too.

The big thing I like about DAZN is that you don't have to worry about your game getting shunted to SN World or only being on TSN Go.   And they have Canadian-specific commentary teams so they focus on Canadian players etc a bit more when they're involved.  

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1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I understand both sides of it.  The idea of "extracting as much economic rent as possible from each" fan is absolutely the business they are in.   But I also agree that there is the potential to cause the footy market to contract due to a resistance to the subscription model at a time when footy was just starting to saturate the market and gain widespread acceptance. 

The loss (by traditional broadcasters) of Champion's league has been really eye-opening.  Previously, I wouldn't have missed a matchday unless I had something else going on.   When I got home from work on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, I commandeered the TV (to my kids' chagrin) and didn't give it up.  This year, I have barely caught a game, forget they are even happening, and hunt around for streams on the rare occasion I remember to look.

If that is the situation with someone who has ingested a steady diet of televised (mostly European)  footy for the last 25 years, you have to think that relegating content to a pay-walled platform will reverse the trend of mainstream acceptance.   

 

Me too - Champions League has fallen off the radar for me personally and also in this country - so aren't they slowing depleting their revenue source?  It can't be the same as buying rights in well established markets in Europe (including to pubs etc).  Plus, I don't even think of buying Heineken anymore....

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, theaub said:

I think I'm the opposite than most for CL.  I have IPTV at my condo so I don't have access to the Rogers/Bell online stuff - the ability to just stream DAZN in the background ("background") at work and listen to CL has been awesome.  The added access to basically every other relevant available league except Bundesliga and local MLS is great too.

The big thing I like about DAZN is that you don't have to worry about your game getting shunted to SN World or only being on TSN Go.   And they have Canadian-specific commentary teams so they focus on Canadian players etc a bit more when they're involved.  

No doubt for fans of the game - (including me as of next year), I'm sure I will love it.  But will this kind of streaming grow the overall market for the game in Canada and bring in passive watchers?  Most of my friends will only watch if they see it's on, or have heard of some players or have seen a few highlights.  That's getting dropped from mainstream media.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Ruud said:

No doubt for fans of the game - (including me as of next year), I'm sure I will love it.  But will this kind of streaming grow the overall market for the game in Canada and bring in passive watchers?  Most of my friends will only watch if they see it's on, or have heard of some players or have seen a few highlights.  That's getting dropped from mainstream media.

 

 

Depends on how you look at it and who you are.  Most soccer fans/friends that I know actually watch more soccer now through streams.

Edited by Corazon

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From general conversation with friends, and scrolling through different social media platforms it's easy to see the massive drop in engagement in the CL. Both second legs of Ajax-Real PSG-Man U are games you need playing in bars, barber shops, malls etc. Those are games that create new fans. MLS has been great, but how many average sports fans could it convert compared to the CL? 

TSN and Sportsnet have never had competition like this, and it remains to be seen if they've taken/will take a big enough hit to get world class football back at whatever cost. Between the 2, how much will ratings drop on Saturday/Sunday mornings when the PL switches to DAZN? Has to be close to 80%.

I'll continue to stream all my football matches that aren't on cable for free, and use the $20 on faster internet.

 

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Would be interesting to see the demographic breakdown on this issue.  I have the feeling that the panic button is being hit by wise silverbacks who are still tethered to cable, while the laissez faire attitude is more prevalent among the snot-nosed kids.

I will let you guess which one I am :)

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Posted (edited)

One of the advantages of DAZN is that they run a highlights option for most games where they dilute the game into 4-6 mins of action - this includes the odd KHL game that I've been curious about.  Valuable for us that work during the day.

To the question of whether this is growing the Canadian game in this country, ideally CPL and CNMT/CNWT games should be on both TV and online to maximize exposure.  DAZN is good for niche events such as a J-League game on a Saturday morning; it wouldn't otherwise have a platform. 

Edited by JamboAl

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2 hours ago, Ruud said:

Me too - Champions League has fallen off the radar for me personally and also in this country - so aren't they slowing depleting their revenue source?  It can't be the same as buying rights in well established markets in Europe (including to pubs etc).  Plus, I don't even think of buying Heineken anymore....

The reason Champions League is on DAZN and not TSN, is because DAZN outbid TSN and is paying UEFA more money than they received previously. So even though the exposure of the UEFA Champions League has dropped in Canada, Canada is now generating more revenue for UEFA than it did in the past.

Now...is this good for the growth of the sport on the whole? Of course not. But UEFA and the EPL don't care about that.

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