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Robert

Would a 4 Nations Tournament fly in Canada?

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6 hours ago, Vic said:

It's a major amount of work - between the reams of approvals from at least a dozen bodies, insurance, ticketing, security, lawyers, government coordination at three levels, staffing, contingency planning, budgeting, venue coordination, team hosting and coordination, sponsorship, media, etc. You'd be lucky to run a youth tournament four months from now.

And for what benefit? Three games in Vancouver? We've probably played more games there than anywhere else in Canada. All that work for that? If it had to happen, what have we played, one game in Quebec in a decade? Surprised you wouldn't have suggested the April FIFA window there. Weather's fine there then.

We're ranked 6th in the world and it's a Cup year and it's not like we're a bad prom date. We can play as many as we like. With no financial commitment, huge personnel or resource outlay, risk or footing the bill. That's one of the best parts of the ranking and a way to recoup some of the investment in it.

The SheBelieves Cup is set to run from February 27th to March 5th. With the U.S.A., England, Japan and Brazil entered, the field is full.

The Cup of Nations is set to run from February 28th to March 6th. With Australia, Argentina, England and New Zealand entered, the field is full.

The Cyprus Cup is set to run from February 25th to March 7th. With Austria, Belgium, Czech Rep., Finland, Hungary, Italy, Korea Dpr., Mexico, Nigeria, Slovakia, South Africa and Thailand entered, the field is full.

Unless Mt. Pete can enter the CWNT in the Algarve Cup at the last minute, this opportunity to prepare for the World Cup has passed.

So fuck it. You guys win. It's too much work and not enough time. Besides, they're only women and really not worth all the trouble it would take to organize a modest tournament. Besides, they don't need the practice. They'll do okay in France.

Besides, we've got the CPL now, so who needs to follow girl's soccer anymore?

We'll be just like the Italians and Japanese.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/19/japan-female-atheletes-economy-class

 

Edited by Robert

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33 minutes ago, Robert said:

The SheBelieves Cup is set to run from February 27th to March 5th. With the U.S.A., England, Japan and Brazil entered, the field is full.

The Cup of Nations is set to run from February 28th to March 6th. With Australia, Argentina, England and New Zealand entered, the field is full.

The Cyprus Cup is set to run from February 25th to March 7th. With Austria, Belgium, Czech Rep., Finland, Hungary, Italy, Korea Dpr., Mexico, Nigeria, Slovakia, South Africa and Thailand entered, the field is full.

Unless Mt. Pete can enter the CWNT in the Algarve Cup at the last minute, this opportunity to prepare for the World Cup has passed.

So fuck it. You guys win. It's too much work and not enough time. Besides, they're only women and really not worth all the trouble it would take to organize a modest tournament. Besides, they don't need the practice. They'll do okay in France.

Besides, we've got the CPL now, so who needs to follow girl's soccer anymore?

We'll be just like the Italians and Japanese.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/19/japan-female-atheletes-economy-class

 

They've already said they are intending to play in the Algarve Cup, the Algarve Cup teams haven't been announced yet, where on earth did you get this idea that Canada isn't playing a tournament in March? 

Edit: The Australia Tournament, unless I've missed something, is South Korea, not England https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/18/australia-to-host-cup-of-nations-as-matildas-prepare-for-world-cup - so that makes England, France, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Spain, among others...all those teams also don't have a March tournament booked yet, hope some of them can sneak into the Algarve Cup last minute too!  Or are you saying all of those teams aren't preparing for the WWC either? 

Edited by carolynduthie

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2 hours ago, carolynduthie said:

They've already said they are intending to play in the Algarve Cup, the Algarve Cup teams haven't been announced yet, where on earth did you get this idea that Canada isn't playing a tournament in March? 

Edit: The Australia Tournament, unless I've missed something, is South Korea, not England https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/18/australia-to-host-cup-of-nations-as-matildas-prepare-for-world-cup - so that makes England, France, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Spain, among others...all those teams also don't have a March tournament booked yet, hope some of them can sneak into the Algarve Cup last minute too!  Or are you saying all of those teams aren't preparing for the WWC either? 

According to: https://www.womenssoccerunited.com/merry-christmas-from-womens-soccer-united/

1) "Denmark look set to participate in 2019 Algarve Cup"

2) "Switzerland are the first nation to indicate that they will be among the competitors at the 2019 edition of the prestigious Algarve Cup tournament held annually in Portugal."

3) Nothing mentioned yet about Canada.

And, yes, I stand corrected on South Korea, as it would be extremely difficult for England to participate in the SheBelieves Cup and Cup of Nations at the same time.

As to the final point, I'm really not concerned about France, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands and Spain, all of whom have proven to be supported by very competent and successful FAs.

Edited by Robert

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22 minutes ago, Robert said:

According to: https://www.womenssoccerunited.com/merry-christmas-from-womens-soccer-united/

1) "Denmark look set to participate in 2019 Algarve Cup"

2) "Switzerland are the first nation to indicate that they will be among the competitors at the 2019 edition of the prestigious Algarve Cup tournament held annually in Portugal."

3) Nothing mentioned yet about Canada.

And, yes, I stand corrected on South Korea, as it would be extremely difficult for England to participate in the SheBelieves Cup and Cup of Nations at the same time.

As to the final point, I'm really not concerned about France, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands and Spain, all of whom have proven to be supported by very competent and successful FAs.

The coach literally said they are planning to go to the Algarve- "There are four FIFA international breaks before the tournament and Heiner-Moller plans to use all of them, including a return to the Algarve Cup in Portugal."  https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports-pmn/canada-to-learn-womens-world-cup-first-round-foes-at-saturdays-draw-in-paris

I suppose that could still fall through but I'd be surprised, given that Canada participated the last few years. 

Edited by carolynduthie

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25 minutes ago, carolynduthie said:

The coach literally said they are planning to go to the Algarve- "There are four FIFA international breaks before the tournament and Heiner-Moller plans to use all of them, including a return to the Algarve Cup in Portugal."  https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports-pmn/canada-to-learn-womens-world-cup-first-round-foes-at-saturdays-draw-in-paris

I suppose that could still fall through but I'd be surprised, given that Canada participated the last few years. 

Hope this materializes. Just checked out the following:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2018/12/22/resilient-canadians-regroup-set-sights-on-no-1-again.html

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I remember the grief that was given in previous years for going to Cyprus and not playing with the big girls in Portugal. Should make people happy now.

These tournaments used to be really exciting when they first started doing them before everyone and their mother got into the game.

They're a great way to fill the void in the drought years away from the 12-month Cup/OLY cycle. They're also a great way to practice a World Cup experience, or rather the group phase.

But at the same time they're a bit formulaic and same-old homogenization. Pad your air miles, play a couple of games, run your lines, drop your pants for the world to see, find out a lot of what you already know. Win, lose, play good, play bad, no tv coverage, no one really knows or cares and it means almost zip to your performance in France.

Same thing we've done and everyone's done for a decade. In the entire women's soccer world, where is the different drummer, the vision, the outside the box, out wide and ahead of the curve, the boldness, the new age version of a 1971 Bernd Schröder.

The women's game needs less emulation of the men's game, more real female flavour to the whole experience, and definitely more real larger than life characters. 

Edited by Vic
Spelled Schrõder with an extra e

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50 minutes ago, Vic said:

I remember the grief that was given in previous years for going to Cyprus and not playing with the big girls in Portugal. Should make people happy now.

These tournaments used to be really exciting when they first started doing them before everyone and their mother got into the game.

They're a great way to fill the void in the drought years away from the 12-month Cup/OLY cycle. They're also a great way to practice a World Cup experience, or rather the group phase.

But at the same time they're a bit formulaic and same-old homogenization. Pad your air miles, play a couple of games, run your lines, drop your pants for the world to see, find out a lot of what you already know. Win, lose, play good, play bad, no tv coverage, no one really knows or cares and it means almost zip to your performance in France.

Same thing we've done and everyone's done for a decade. In the entire women's soccer world, where is the different drummer, the vision, the outside the box, out wide and ahead of the curve, the boldness, the new age version of a 1971 Bernd Schröder.

The women's game needs less emulation of the men's game, more real female flavour to the whole experience, and definitely more real larger than life characters. 

Well obviously the CSA does not belong to the "everyone and their mother" club, because they still haven't gotten into these games. That fact alone should tell you something about where the women's game is headed. It's only a matter of time before multinational corporations get involved by way of investing some serious $$$ into these tournaments, and that will mean that women will finally have an opportunity at making some serious prize $$$, which is something they are long overdue. Will that spice things up enough for you, Vic?

Unfortunately, with the dinosaur mentality that prevails at CSA HQ, the chances remain big that Canada will continue to miss the $$$ boat, as I just don't see Mt. Pete as being the guys who has the balls to loosen the CSA purse strings enough to let the moths fly out. Remember, it takes money to make money.

Edited by Robert

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59 minutes ago, Robert said:

Well obviously the CSA does not belong to the "everyone and their mother" club, because they still haven't gotten into these games. That fact alone should tell you something about where the women's game is headed. It's only a matter of time before multinational corporations get involved by way of investing some serious $$$ into these tournaments, and that will mean that women will finally have an opportunity at making some serious prize $$$, which is something they are long overdue. Will that spice things up enough for you, Vic?

Unfortunately, with the dinosaur mentality that prevails at CSA HQ, the chances remain big that Canada will continue to miss the $$$ boat, as I just don't see Mt. Pete as being the guys who has the balls to loosen the CSA purse strings enough to let the moths fly out. Remember, it takes money to make money.

Dude what are you on about? Canada has been playing in these March tournaments for as long as I can remember (the last CanWNT victory over the US was at the 2001 Algarve Cup), the same as everyone else. As Vic noted, Canada was often playing in Cyprus for awhile after the Algarve became the more "tier 1" tournament, but since the US started their own thing Canada has been invited back to Algarve (and interestingly, several of the European teams didn't want to return to the US tournament because they hate the format of it and the fact that they're paraded around to different stadiums, often in a non-sensical order, on short rest just for the benefit of US Soccer being able to fill different stadiums and make more $$). I'm not sure what you think the benefit would be of Canada starting now a fifth March tournament, trying to attract teams to come play in the cold and snow (or in Vancouver, on turf) instead of literal resorts in Portugal or Cyprus with much shorter travel for all of the Euro-based players. 

Edited by carolynduthie

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47 minutes ago, carolynduthie said:

Dude what are you on about? Canada has been playing in these March tournaments for as long as I can remember (the last CanWNT victory over the US was at the 2001 Algarve Cup), the same as everyone else. As Vic noted, Canada was often playing in Cyprus for awhile after the Algarve became the more "tier 1" tournament, but since the US started their own thing Canada has been invited back to Algarve (and interestingly, several of the European teams didn't want to return to the US tournament because they hate the format of it and the fact that they're paraded around to different stadiums, often in a non-sensical order, on short rest just for the benefit of US Soccer being able to fill different stadiums and make more $$). I'm not sure what you think the benefit would be of Canada starting now a fifth March tournament, trying to attract teams to come play in the cold and snow (or in Vancouver, on turf) instead of literal resorts in Portugal or Cyprus with much shorter travel for all of the Euro-based players. 

Let's be realistic. The last time I checked there were only about a handful of Canadians under contract with European clubs. Playing matches in Europe requires far more North American-based players traveling to Europe than the other way around? True or False?

And since you're bringing up the last time Canada beat the U.S.A. (2001), if we are ever going to leave our mark at a World Cup Final, we Will have to beat the U.S.A. So never mind playing Russia and South Korea in a literal seaside resort in Portugal. 

Edited by Robert

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1 hour ago, Robert said:

Let's be realistic. The last time I checked there were only about a handful of Canadians under contract with European clubs. Playing matches in Europe requires far more North American-based players traveling to Europe than the other way around? True or False?

And since you're bringing up the last time Canada beat the U.S.A. (2001), if we are ever going to leave our mark at a World Cup Final, we Will have to beat the U.S.A. So never mind playing Russia and South Korea in a literal seaside resort in Portugal. 

There are only a handful of Women's European clubs that are good.  Most Canadian National Team players play in the NWSL because it is the only women's league in the world with parity from end to end.  Each of the European leagues have a couple of teams  that are world class.  Buchanan and Lawrence are the only Canadian players on teams that are as good as or better than NWSL teams.  The fact that most of the national team play in the NWSL is a good thing. 

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Canadians play in the league because it's been fostered by the association as it's just across the border and the players are easy to access and prior to the current regime we had a good relationship with the country.

The world has changed considerably since the first American professional incarnations. European options can be much better because they often piggyback on the men's infrastructure. Professional dedicated operations and facilities, immaculate grass, game day experiences, and often better money.

The best non-American players in the world were all in WUSA and WPS. They're generally in Europe now.

If you were to line up American teams in the top 50, you'd probably get most, but I'm not sure if you'd see any in the top 10. Probably a few in each of the 10-20 and 20-30.

The parity thing is the North American franchise model. Like NHL, NFL, NBA, CFL, MLB, and every other league. Salary caps, controlled and regulated drafts, leagues deeply involved in making sure all franchises are equitable.

It guarantees a healthy league from an investors and operational perspective, but you don't get the real drama of Darwinism with arms races and the perils of relegation. 

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17 hours ago, Robert said:

So fuck it. You guys win. It's too much work and not enough time. Besides, they're only women and really not worth all the trouble it would take to organize a modest tournament. Besides, they don't need the practice. They'll do okay in France.

Besides, we've got the CPL now, so who needs to follow girl's soccer anymore?

We'll be just like the Italians and Japanese.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/19/japan-female-atheletes-economy-class

 

This is like a guy walking into a room full of women's fans and supporters, many who've followed and supported and been involved in the women's game their entire lives, and starts postulating like they're the only true supporter and everyone else in the room is a misogynist.

I don't think that's what you intended and it came across wrong, and maybe it's just me though.

... we talked about that plane fare controversy here when it happened... six years ago. And we've been bitching about the unfair treatment of women in the game pretty much since the women's side began in the old forums.

The women's forums have seen a lot of activity lately. It's usually pretty quiet but there's been a lot of drive-by's and people checking it out and dropping in. It's great to see and a healthy sign of how the women's game is growing in the country.

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9 hours ago, MrsC said:

There are only a handful of Women's European clubs that are good.  Most Canadian National Team players play in the NWSL because it is the only women's league in the world with parity from end to end.  Each of the European leagues have a couple of teams  that are world class.  Buchanan and Lawrence are the only Canadian players on teams that are as good as or better than NWSL teams.  The fact that most of the national team play in the NWSL is a good thing. 

Wouldn't it be interesting to have a home and home series between North Carolina Courage and Olympique Lyonnais?

Or better yet, a 4 Nations tournament featuring the Canadian Women's National Team, Portland Thorns FC, North Carolina Courage and Olympique Lyonnais? I bet ya we could sell out Royal Athletic Park, in Victoria, for those matches.

The only problem with the latter is; who would Christine play for? I guess we could invite Seattle Reign FC instead of Portland Thorns FC, but then who would Adriana play for? Oh, never mind. Just another crazy idea out of that brilliant mind of mine.

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Other than the one time 15 years or so ago somewhat similar when they ran a game with a national team (USA) against a world all-star team, has FIFA ever sanctioned a national team playing a club team? In either gender?

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On 12/22/2018 at 3:50 PM, carolynduthie said:

The coach literally said they are planning to go to the Algarve- "There are four FIFA international breaks before the tournament and Heiner-Moller plans to use all of them, including a return to the Algarve Cup in Portugal."  https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports-pmn/canada-to-learn-womens-world-cup-first-round-foes-at-saturdays-draw-in-paris

I suppose that could still fall through but I'd be surprised, given that Canada participated the last few years. 

The four FIFA international breaks in 2019 prior to the World Cup in France are as follows:

https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/jt0d6qoqwqwbp5sbofoc.pdf

https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/women-s-international-match-calendar-2018-2019.pdf?cloudid=kp6qzhciaunnz5rbxy6h

1) January 14th to January 22nd, 2019

2) February 25th to March 5th/6th, 2019

3) April 1st to April 9th, 2019

4) June 10th to June 18th, 2019

Canadian women's national coach Kenneth Heiner-Moller/Christiansen has gone on public record to state that he intends to compete in the Algarve Cup and also plans to use all four of the FIFA international breaks prior to the 2019 World Cup in France. Being that today is December 24, 2018, only three weeks to the date of the first FIFA international break, is it to early to expect a CSA announcement as to what international matches have been organized for the Canadian Women's National Team in preparation for the 2019 Women's World Cup? After all, Canada's opening match against Cameroon on June 10th is just over 5 months from now!

I appears there are only three international breaks, as Canada's opening match on June 10th coincides with the fourth scheduled break. Did coach Heiner/Moller/Chriatiansen notice this discrepancy? Is it his job to notice such discrepancies? 

 

Edited by Robert

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4 minutes ago, Robert said:

The four FIFA international breaks in 2019 prior to the World Cup in France are as follows:

https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/jt0d6qoqwqwbp5sbofoc.pdf

https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/women-s-international-match-calendar-2018-2019.pdf?cloudid=kp6qzhciaunnz5rbxy6h

1) January 14th to January 22nd, 2019

2) February 25th to March 5th/6th, 2019

3) April 1st to April 9th, 2019

4) June 10th to June 18th, 2019

Canadian women's national coach Kenneth Heiner-Moller/Christiansen has gone on public record to state that he intends to compete in the Algarve Cup and also plans to use all four of the FIFA international breaks prior to the 2019 World Cup in France. Being that today is December 24, 2018, only three weeks to the date of the first FIFA international break, is it to early to expect a CSA announcement as to what international matches have been organized for the Canadian Women's National Team in preparation for the 2019 Women's World Cup? After all, Canada's opening match against Cameroon on June 10th is just over 5 months from now!

I appears there are only three international breaks, as Canada's opening match on June 10th coincides with the fourth scheduled break. Did coach Heiner/Moller/Chriatiansen notice this discrepancy? Is it his job to notice such discrepancies? 

 

If it is Coach Heiner/Moller/Christiansen's responsibility to arrange international matches for the national team, then isn't an oversight like this worrisome?

 

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The June window would be for teams not in the World Cup.

Friendlies in Cup years are a poker game and often late on the table. Norway only have a game against Scotland on the books, France just one against the USA, the Germans one against the Swedes (who snuck in a great trip to Cape Town in January).

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2 hours ago, Robert said:

If it is Coach Heiner/Moller/Christiansen's responsibility to arrange international matches for the national team, then isn't an oversight like this worrisome?

 

As Vic said, the window is for teams outside the World Cup. You can pull players two weeks before the WWC from their clubs, so I imagine they'll play a one or two games at the beginning of that window before the WWC starts (either as a send-off series in Canada or in Europe, depending on what they're planning camp-wise). 

Edited by carolynduthie

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5 minutes ago, carolynduthie said:

As Vic said, the window is for teams outside the World Cup. You can pull players two weeks before the WWC from their clubs, so I imagine they'll play a one or two games at the beginning of that window before the WWC starts (either as a send-off series in Canada or in Europe, depending on what they're planning camp-wise). 

"Saturday’s draw allows the Canada coach to plan his pre-tournament schedule, which likely will involve teams similar in style to his first-round opponents. There are four FIFA international breaks before the tournament and Heiner-Moller plans to use all of them, including a return to the Algarve Cup in Portugal."

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11 minutes ago, Robert said:

"Saturday’s draw allows the Canada coach to plan his pre-tournament schedule, which likely will involve teams similar in style to his first-round opponents. There are four FIFA international breaks before the tournament and Heiner-Moller plans to use all of them, including a return to the Algarve Cup in Portugal."

My friend, look at the document in the link you yourself posted: "June 7 - July 7 - FIFA Women's World Cup - Release to national team:  14 days before the opening match. Release back to Clubs: the day after the team’s last mach in the tournament." Obviously the international break for teams in the WWC isn't just from the 10th to the 18th of June. Like, I'm sorry if Heiner-Moller didn't use the exact phrasing you prefer but he has four opportunities between now and the WWC in which he can bring together all of his team and play international friendlies where the clubs cannot withhold their players. 

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2 hours ago, carolynduthie said:

My friend, look at the document in the link you yourself posted: "June 7 - July 7 - FIFA Women's World Cup - Release to national team:  14 days before the opening match. Release back to Clubs: the day after the team’s last mach in the tournament." Obviously the international break for teams in the WWC isn't just from the 10th to the 18th of June. Like, I'm sorry if Heiner-Moller didn't use the exact phrasing you prefer but he has four opportunities between now and the WWC in which he can bring together all of his team and play international friendlies where the clubs cannot withhold their players. 

Look, it's crystal clear what  Kenneth Heiner-Moller said that he is going to do. Now either he's true to his word, or he's not. Very Simple.

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4 hours ago, Vic said:

The June window would be for teams not in the World Cup.

Friendlies in Cup years are a poker game and often late on the table. Norway only have a game against Scotland on the books, France just one against the USA, the Germans one against the Swedes (who snuck in a great trip to Cape Town in January).

I don't really care how those other countries are preparing for the World Cup. My focus is on the Canadian team. Like are we going over to France to try and win this tournament, or what? If the CSA is serious about giving the CWNT the best possible shot at winning the title. then they better start preparing like champions. If not, then we better all pray that Canada defeats Cameroon in our first match, or else its going to be a quick 3 games and return to Canada tournament.

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13 minutes ago, Robert said:

Look, it's crystal clear what  Kenneth Heiner-Moller said that he is going to do. Now either he's true to his word, or he's not. Very Simple.

Exactly. So end thread until nothing happens.  Until then.... 

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