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PhillyJawn-guy

Why is the CSA not being tougher on the 3 MLS teams?

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Regarding an interview with Don Garber earlier today about the relationship of MLS with CPL and his nonchalant response, it's time that the CSA takes strict action. Or Canadian soccer fans and those who admire and support Canada (like moi) should demand change. Does Canada still need MLS or do TFC/Impact/Caps deserve much, much better? They could be really compelling independent clubs playing in a real soccer competition, so why continue to stay in a non-competitive, intramural, single-entity garbage low quality entertainment #fakeleague? Anyone has ideas of what should be done with TFC/Impact/Caps? I think at least one of them could join CPL maybe by 2022. Joey Saputo complains about losing money and not being able to spend big money for overpaid retired has-beens so the Impact could be the first to CPL. Then no one would force Mr. Saputo to pay for any retirement holidays and sucker unaware fans into watching that crud.

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2 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

Good effort on the trolling 9/10!

 

This is a serious question. Don Garber has been giving vague answers when asked about relationship with CPL. He doesn't seem to get or respect the fact that CPL is a D1 league and they're clear that MLS reserve sides are not welcome and they don't want any "farm clubs."

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4 hours ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Here's some more food for thought:

I'm not him BTW, but I remember this guy used to post here as Reme_90 or something like it.

No.  Please Stop.  No need to kill the three most successful teams quite yet.

Let the CanPL piggy back on the MLS credibility through the voyageurs cup until CPL gets it's legs.  And then potentially the CSA could step in.

Way too soon now, though.

 

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The thing is for a country of 35 million and soccer is 3rd or 4th in popularity, does Canada really need 2 D1 leagues co-existing? One complaint was the 3 MLS teams have done a piss-poor job developing Canadians and giving playing time (even though Canadian MLS teams > US ones) so what's the point in keeping them there? About CPL "getting its legs" it would help to have well established clubs with a lot of money to give the league a boost, right?

I'm not saying act right now, but the CSA should give warnings and set a timeline.

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OK, I'll make a deal guys. When Canadians COMPLETELY abandon MLS, I'll stop talking. I called for a total boycott in the US of the MLS Cup and they banned me, so I'm assuming Canadians are more soccer-savvy. 

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^^^Over the years Americans who have adopted this posture on forums like Bigsoccer have tended to be from smaller American cities that are seen as viable contenders for expansion that might not get in before whatever the stated final destination on numbers for MLS happens to be at any given point in time. That means that having three Canadian teams on board is viewed as an obstacle stopping their city from having a team. Not sure if that is what is driving this stream of posts but have seen it happen in the past.

The big problem with a Canexit from MLS is that if the Forbes magazine valuations are to be believed you are looking at north of $USD 500 million in franchise value terms that the three I/O groups could reasonably expect to be compensated for and the CSA doesn't have that kind of money at its disposal. What's the take home message from that? Given the way MLS operates in single entity terms MLS is going to be in Canada for as long as it collectively wants to be and that could be a very long time especially where Toronto is concerned.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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Warm take: as soon as Canada gets out of MLS there will be fewer embarrassing losses to Honduras, El Salvador, St. Kitts & Nevis, Guadeloupe, etc. And once CPL becomes strong enough Canada will own Mexico and dominate them so much the Mexicans will attempt to play hockey to upstage the Canadians!

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27 minutes ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Warm take: as soon as Canada gets out of MLS there will be fewer embarrassing losses to Honduras, El Salvador, St. Kitts & Nevis, Guadeloupe, etc. And once CPL becomes strong enough Canada will own Mexico and dominate them so much the Mexicans will attempt to play hockey to upstage the Canadians!

🤡

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49 minutes ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

OK, I'll make a deal guys. When Canadians COMPLETELY abandon MLS, I'll stop talking. I called for a total boycott in the US of the MLS Cup and they banned me, so I'm assuming Canadians are more soccer-savvy. 

No deal.  That means you get to talk like this forever. 

You are welcome to talk soccer here, but not crusade against MLS or US Soccer. 

You have to stop this, and I mean now. 

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1 hour ago, socceronly said:

No deal.  That means you get to talk like this forever. 

You are welcome to talk soccer here, but not crusade against MLS or US Soccer. 

You have to stop this, and I mean now. 

OK, I'll cool down my trolling. But are you and others really OK with Canada having one foot in US soccer and continue to participate in US leagues rather than being independent?

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2 minutes ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

OK, I'll cool down my trolling. But are you and others really OK with Canada having one foot in US soccer and continue to participate in US leagues rather than being independent?

So you admit you're trolling? Shouldn't that be grounds for being blocked from the forum socceronly?

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Canadians shouldn't let Garber who's a soccer noob tell you how to run a club (Caps SHOULD be a real club, and leave MLS for CPL):

What other executive of a soccer league in the world says things like this or think he can actually control others' businesses?

I have at least 50 reasons Canada should GTFO of MLS but if I started listing them I'd be what you call "trolling." So I'll let others speak such as Dumbass Garber.

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On 12/8/2018 at 5:46 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

^^^Over the years Americans who have adopted this posture on forums like Bigsoccer have tended to be from smaller American cities that are seen as viable contenders for expansion that might not get in before whatever the stated final destination on numbers for MLS happens to be at any given point in time. That means that having three Canadian teams on board is viewed as an obstacle stopping their city from having a team. Not sure if that is what is driving this stream of posts but have seen it happen in the past.

The big problem with a Canexit from MLS is that if the Forbes magazine valuations are to be believed you are looking at north of $USD 500 million in franchise value terms that the three I/O groups could reasonably expect to be compensated for and the CSA doesn't have that kind of money at its disposal. What's the take home message from that? Given the way MLS operates in single entity terms MLS is going to be in Canada for as long as it collectively wants to be and that could be a very long time especially where Toronto is concerned.

CSA doesn't need the money if one of the Canadian MLS business units (Van/Tor/Mtl) decides to move into CPL and sells back to the MLS their franchise/business units rights, MLS then happily taking a big fee when that is flipped to another market in Chivas USA/LAFC fashion.

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On 12/8/2018 at 8:46 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

^^^Over the years Americans who have adopted this posture on forums like Bigsoccer have tended to be from smaller American cities that are seen as viable contenders for expansion that might not get in before whatever the stated final destination on numbers for MLS happens to be at any given point in time. That means that having three Canadian teams on board is viewed as an obstacle stopping their city from having a team. Not sure if that is what is driving this stream of posts but have seen it happen in the past.

The big problem with a Canexit from MLS is that if the Forbes magazine valuations are to be believed you are looking at north of $USD 500 million in franchise value terms that the three I/O groups could reasonably expect to be compensated for and the CSA doesn't have that kind of money at its disposal. What's the take home message from that? Given the way MLS operates in single entity terms MLS is going to be in Canada for as long as it collectively wants to be and that could be a very long time especially where Toronto is concerned.

They can “expect” to be compensated all they want, but unless there’s a legal basis for doing so they’re out of luck.  I don’t think any of us know what deal the CSA/MLS/Canadian MLS clubs have ... i’d assume it would have to be some sort of “lease” agreement or a promise that would come under the umbrella of estoppel.  I don’t think the CSA could legally sell those 3 licences to MLS in perpetuity.. now maybe it’s a 99 year lease and we’re screwed.

Im not advocating for those teams leaving MLS and I don’t think the CSA is either but if they wanted to pull their licences what is stopping them?  No court is going to award damages for a national body enforcing their discretion - unless of course there is some sort of arrangement they would be breaching.  I.e.  MLS is paying the CSA $$$ every year ... in which case it must be the worst deal of all time as we can’t even afford camps.

if it’s just a licence that is renewed every few years (Which FIFA may require) then I don’t see what is stopping them.  But there’s no reason to do anything so drastic.. at this point it would be bad for football in Canada, period.  MLS is on national tv and has international stars and CPL is in the training wheel stage.. if things went sour and we tried to get back in MLS they would tell us to go f ourselves and then where does football go from there in our country?  

Best to keep a finger in each pie for now.  And if MLS is exposed they’re going to try to screw CPL from growing to a point where major cities leave MLS.  I think their attitude toward the league will be telling as to what the story is here.  

Edited by Keegan

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2 hours ago, mtlsab said:

Di you think it will be productive to force them?

Yes, getting the 3 Canadian teams to a proper league that follows the soccer world and adheres to FIFA and out of one that's looking more and more like a criminal Ponzi scheme and could collapse in 2-3 years. MLS right now is almost the exact parallel to the height of NASL when it expanded to 24 teams.

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Let us all agree that in 10 years we'd love it if the three Canadian MLS teams sold their teams back to MLS and formed teams in CPL.  I hope this will happen, and it is realistic.  Sell the MLS team for $200 million or whatever the going rate is, and buy a CPL team for $40 million.  But for now there is no way that any Canadian MLS fan would want to see their team go from 20 - 35 thousand fans down to  5 or 6,000.  Been there, done that, hated it.  I've said it before. During the years that the 86ers/Caps played in Swangard, the fans main concern wasn't who we were going to sign, or where we were in the tables, but will we have a team next year.  Will the league fold? That is what CPL fans will feel for the next 5 to 10 years, like it or not.  As fans, we'll all do our best to support CPL.  I'll pay to stream games. I'll travel to Victoria, Calgary and Edmonton to see some matches live. But for the three MLS teams to give up a good, successful, growing league at this point is just plain stupid and isn't going to happen.

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And, not that it would ever happen, but if the CSA forced the change in any way, that would be the end of my support for the CPL. Soccer is for the fans and support should be decided by the fans and not dictated to by any organisation.  Least of all one that is controlled by FIFA.

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I'm not sure if the MLS clubs would go down to 5 or 6000 fans per game. How many fans show up to games when the Canadian MLS clubs play against each other compared to their American MLS counterparts? If you could guarantee sold out stadiums with games between them, if CPL quality improved to better than USL/MLS 1.0 levels, if there was an actual CCL that was set up like the UEFA CL with group stages, a broadcast revenue stream comparable to MLS, and if the CPL was okay with a disparate salary structure, then why wouldn't they make the switch? Sure, you would have Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver perennially at the top of the table, but if they can build the supporter's culture so that they support their teams regardless of their place in the standings, it could be a case of a rising tide lifting all boats.

Pie in the sky, I know, I don't see it happening for at least 30 years or more but dreams are possible sometimes.

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@Initial B

I think you've made the best point yet as it relates to the Concacaf Champions League.  Without that tournament gaining some sort of significance (aka $$$) there will never be an incentive to leave MLS.  If we ever get to a point where CCL is the major tournament (bigger than MLS Cup, as it SHOULD be) and our Canadian MLS sides can't get in through the league that's when a serious question will be raised.  

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