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Gian-Luca

TFC 2018-2019 Off-season

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1 minute ago, Free kick said:

Yes.  This is similar to a point I made earlier.  There seems to be a misconception that TFC never spent before the Giovinco era.  But they did spend.  It’s just that they never got the same value in return and they never allow the chemistry to form.   I don’t know that you can replace what Giovinco brings given the Constraints of MLS.  

This is why I believe they should have kept him. This has mistake written all over it. Sincerely hope I am wrong.

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It's a shame but it's something I figured might happen by the end of the year.

The Boyd signing is not the DP signing, thankfully - at least not according to this:

https://www.wakingthered.com/2019/1/30/18204815/reports-toronto-fc-set-to-acquire-terrence-boyd

Seems more like a replacement for Ricketts at best.

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8 hours ago, Keegan said:

I'm a little annoyed at Giovinco too.  When is enough, enough?  You were the star on the team and made more than anyone else - more than players like Villa, Kaka, Ibrahimovic, Drogba.. the guy was living the life and looking for a bump up while other teammates couldn't get a raise even if they wanted to.  Just look at the hoops Osorio had to jump through to get paid.  It does set a dangerous precedent to have a guy around like that, while good he isn't getting any better and giving him a pay bump would be a mistake.

I can never fault any professional for wanting to get paid.  Careers are short for athletes and we don’t know the details of what they offered and what was asked.  You cant compare the Giovinco situation to that of Osorio because one (Giovinco) has name value and pedigree that translates across borders.  Plus the numbers will be different and hence the gaps in numbered will be larger for a guy like Giovinco as opposed to Osorio.  With Osorio,  they might have been haggling over tens of thousands of dollars and where else is he going to go?  With Giovinco they may have been haggling over many millions and there are more places in the world he can go.

 

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43 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

It's a shame but it's something I figured might happen by the end of the year.

The Boyd signing is not the DP signing, thankfully - at least not according to this:

https://www.wakingthered.com/2019/1/30/18204815/reports-toronto-fc-set-to-acquire-terrence-boyd

Seems more like a replacement for Ricketts at best.

I think Boyd is actually a very good signing. A player with unrealized potential due to injuries (sounds familiar, right?). 

Had he been announced before Giovinco's departure I wouldn't be saying this, but should he struggle, he will likely be a scapegoat if they announce his signing and Seba's departure in the same breath - DP or not (and yes, he won't be a DP). 

The reality is that the next player to be added in the post-Giovinco era will symbolize the changing face of the club - unfair but that'll be the optics I think.

Edited by Obinna

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23 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I can never fault any professional for wanting to get paid.  Careers are short for athletes and we don’t know the details of what they offered and what was asked.  You cant compare the Giovinco situation to that of Osorio because one (Giovinco) has name value and pedigree that translates across borders.  Plus the numbers will be different and hence the gaps in numbered will be larger for a guy like Giovinco as opposed to Osorio.  With Osorio,  they might have been haggling over tens of thousands of dollars and where else is he going to go?  With Giovinco they may have been haggling over many millions and there are more places in the world he can go.

 

Yeah, this isn't meant as anti-TFC, but I can't blame Gio a bit if the numbers being tossed round here are even remotely accurate.  $10M to play abroad - compared to $3-5M (or even $6/7M) here?  If they have him for a couple of years, he is making a huge amount of additional money.

I like my current employer and appreciate my job, but if someone offered me twice as much money and the same amount of job security the only thing my boss would see from me is a vapour trail. 

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

They also said Giovinco left training camp because of "leg tightness".

I no longer take what this club says at face value.

You can't take either side at face value during a negotiation, or even afterward. The truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Both sides played it exactly like a typical club and player (and his agent) would during one of these transfer sagas.

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On 5/9/2018 at 11:23 PM, Big_M said:

Yes absolutely Giovinco has the worst attitude..tonight threw himself down plenty of times, always complaining and then smashes the ball away in the final minutes while his team is down and takes a yellow..no matter what his level or performance is, this attitude is unacceptable

 

On 5/12/2018 at 9:41 PM, Big_M said:

Tonight was the peak of Giovinco's awful attitude and how detrimental it is to the team. Scored a penalty and team has a few minutes to equalize then puts hands in the face of opponent and gets a fully deserved red and on top of that doesn't get off the field for another 30sec-1min arguing while Vanney is telling him to just get off, not caring that time is running out..he needs to be gone after this season or even sooner..and getting way too much at 7M, there's players getting 1-2M in the league and performing better

 

Good..now need a strong younger dp

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The reality is they were never going to pay $7 million or even slightly less for Giovinco again (just like they won't for Bradley or $5 million again for the often-injured Altidore). Giovinco has said he would have accepted less to stay in Toronto, but how much less?

They probably won't be paying $7million for his replacement. While the franchise value for TFC has grown (skyrocketed?) the team actually has been losing money in the profit & loss column since they started with the Bradley/Defoe DP signings. If MLSE sees that teams can win championships by not spending as much as TFC (while still spending big), you can bet that they will direct the team to try that option. The team will remain big spenders (I understand the closest they got to making money was in 2016/2017 thanks to the playoff runs, including the high ratings for TSN which apparently saved the TSN broadcasting deal), but probably not at the same levels which, arguably, were over-spends in the case of its two American DP's (but I would say still justifiable, wise signings given that they helped to turn the franchise around from laughing stock to best in the league by 2017).

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16 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The reality is they were never going to pay $7 million or even slightly less for Giovinco again (just like they won't for Bradley or $5 million again for the often-injured Altidore). Giovinco has said he would have accepted less to stay in Toronto, but how much less?

They probably won't be paying $7million for his replacement. While the franchise value for TFC has grown (skyrocketed?) the team actually has been losing money in the profit & loss column since they started with the Bradley/Defoe DP signings. If MLSE sees that teams can win championships by not spending as much as TFC (while still spending big), you can bet that they will direct the team to try that option. The team will remain big spenders (I understand the closest they got to making money was in 2016/2017 thanks to the playoff runs, including the high ratings for TSN which apparently saved the TSN broadcasting deal), but probably not at the same levels which, arguably, were over-spends in the case of its two American DP's (but I would say still justifiable, wise signings given that they helped to turn the franchise around from laughing stock to best in the league by 2017).

Somebody's been reading Facebook comments. ;)

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2 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

A tip of the hat to you, particularly for the 2016/2017 TV info which I hadn't heard before. :)

Now if only people would've believed me when I said it's an open secret that MLSE is looking to cut costs at TFC.

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1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

The reality is they were never going to pay $7 million or even slightly less for Giovinco again (just like they won't for Bradley or $5 million again for the often-injured Altidore). Giovinco has said he would have accepted less to stay in Toronto, but how much less?

They probably won't be paying $7million for his replacement. While the franchise value for TFC has grown (skyrocketed?) the team actually has been losing money in the profit & loss column since they started with the Bradley/Defoe DP signings. If MLSE sees that teams can win championships by not spending as much as TFC (while still spending big), you can bet that they will direct the team to try that option. The team will remain big spenders (I understand the closest they got to making money was in 2016/2017 thanks to the playoff runs, including the high ratings for TSN which apparently saved the TSN broadcasting deal), but probably not at the same levels which, arguably, were over-spends in the case of its two American DP's (but I would say still justifiable, wise signings given that they helped to turn the franchise around from laughing stock to best in the league by 2017).

There was a quote attributed to Tim Bezbatchenko (when he decided leave) stating something along the lines that he believed that things were going to change at TFC.  So he knew what was coming.  

I am sure that clubs and companies dont arrive at these conclusions (ie; to scale back) just out of the blue.   They likely knew that this would be the new direction some time ago, even before the season tickets renewal campaign for 2019.  That’s the part I find frustrating,  moreso given that SSH prices went up.  

Since day one when this club started we have seen increases and decreases as far as ticket prices over the years.   Often it was based on the mood and optimism around the fans and clubs.   They managed the mood well last fall to justify an increase in season seat prices.

 

Edited by Free kick

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37 minutes ago, RS said:

Now if only people would've believed me when I said it's an open secret that MLSE is looking to cut costs at TFC.

That seems to be an inevitable step in the evolution of an MLSE team.  Build an exciting on-field/ice/court product and then nickel and dime it for a while to extract maximum profits while interest is high.  Hopefully TFC doesn't follow the usual pattern.

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59 minutes ago, Free kick said:

There was a quote attributed to Tim Bezbatchenko (when he decided leave) stating something along the lines that he believed that things were going to change at TFC.  So he knew what was coming.  

I am sure that clubs and companies dont arrive at these conclusions (ie; to scale back) just out of the blue.   They likely knew that this would be the new direction some time ago, even before the season tickets renewal campaign for 2019.  That’s the part I find frustrating,  moreso given that SSH prices went up.  

Since day one when this club started we have seen increases and decreases as far as ticket prices over the years.   Often it was based on the mood and optimism around the fans and clubs.   They managed the mood well last fall to justify an increase in season seat prices.

 

Well they would have been very short-sighted if they hadn't prepared for this as a possibility and didn't plan accordingly.

I still think the Season ticket prices are fairly affordable and good value for the product on the field, so I'm not really concerned there. For me it's really the timing of this happening before another CCL run. There isn't that much time left (19 days) before the first game to have replacements for Giovinco and Vazquez especially (not forgetting VDW, but that's less of a concern with De Leon & Ciman there) not only signed but in shape & in cohesion with the rest of the team. Maybe they can get past the Panamanian team anyway with the current line-up (assuming a healthy Altidore, Boyd & Hamilton as the three main strikers), difficult to say without knowing much about that team, but we don't know much about the TFC team that will be fielded that day. And the 2nd round would be in early March I guess against a tougher opponent - should they get there.

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Almiron is on his way to Newcastle announced today as well, for a much larger fee but then a much younger player not near the end of his contract. That's quite the day for MLS selling star players!

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On 1/28/2019 at 12:01 PM, Obinna said:

Rumors have surfaced that Algerian international Sofiane Hanni, of Spartak Moscow, has been linked with an MLS move. 

The 28 year old French-born attacking midfielder has 3 goals in 19 league games for the Russian side, which he joined last year. He started his career with Nantes and had stops in Turkey and Belgium, where he was voted Belgian League player of the year with KV Mechelen in 2015-16, earning a move to Anderlecht the following season. He also has 4 goals in 8 caps for the Algerian NT.

No indication of which club or clubs are interested, but this feels like a very Toronto-esque target. Perhaps they are looking at him to fill the Vazquez void. Considering Victor won the Belgian League best player in 2014-15 (a season before Hanni won it), it's easy to imagine Toronto being aware of, and now pursuing, this player.

@mpg_29 I brought this player up as a possible Toronto target, to replace VV, but at the time I thought TAM.

I am surprised this is their DP, but should anything surprise me at this point?

Edited by Obinna

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3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

@mpg_29 I brought this player up last week as a possible Toronto target, to replace VV, but at the time I thought TAM.

I am surprised this is their DP, but should anything surprise me at this point?

What's the max salary with TAM? $1.2M or something? Only thing I can find on this guy is that he was making the equivalent of about $700,000 USD a few years ago. So you'd think he'd be a TAM player.

 

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Just now, mpg_29 said:

What's the max salary with TAM? $1.2M or something? Only thing I can find on this guy is that he was making the equivalent of about $700,000 USD a few years ago. So you'd think he'd be a TAM player.

 

It's $1.5M 

He was likely making much more at Spartak. The big clubs in Russia pay their players very handsomely.

The $700k was probably his Anderlecht salary.

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1 minute ago, Obinna said:

It's $1.5M 

He was likely making much more at Spartak. The big clubs in Russia pay their players very handsomely.

The $700k was probably his Anderlecht salary.

It was.

It's probably a DP salary on the lower-end of things, maybe $3M or something.

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That's what I expect.

But yeah, great resume for a TAM player, but not for a DP. Unless your plan includes low-end DPs because MLSE demands it because they want to maximize profits and believe they will maintain a high revenue simultaneously.

Let's see how it plays out, I guess...it's not like MLSE has ever let me down, right?

Edited by Obinna

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13 hours ago, Keegan said:

Selling your franchise player for $3 million is definitely not "selling high".  That is pocket change in world football terms - a player as valuable as Giovinco was to this franchise should have got us more, even if he was in a contract year.  

I'm a little annoyed at Giovinco too.  When is enough, enough?  You were the star on the team and made more than anyone else - more than players like Villa, Kaka, Ibrahimovic, Drogba.. the guy was living the life and looking for a bump up while other teammates couldn't get a raise even if they wanted to.  Just look at the hoops Osorio had to jump through to get paid.  It does set a dangerous precedent to have a guy around like that, while good he isn't getting any better and giving him a pay bump would be a mistake.

It's completely selling high, he's clearly on the decline and his wages are far more consequential to any club's budget than a transfer fee.

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