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  • The first step in making some major necessary changes to the Voyageurs, is moving the forum.

    The major reasons being:

    • Separation of the forum from The Voyageurs as a group to limit possible damage from content. 
    • The ability to more heavily moderate the forum without the sense that people are being suspended or banned from The Voyageurs as a group
    • Decrease the view of the Voyageurs as simply a forum, that many people are not comfortable to join.  They need to join a group.
    • The divisive nature of inter city bullshit
    • The divisive nature of club soccer 
    • Attract those that are soccer fans in this country but do not want to be part of a national team organization and are hesitant to participate in the forum.  
    • Increase in traffic as a general Canadian forum/hub for club and national team soccer can drive more people to The Voyageurs.
    • Drive more traffic to Canadian podcasts and blogs with the forum being integrated into CSN as a general Canadian soccer hub.
    • Impending draconian copyright laws
       

    Please test things out on the new site, and email me at socceronly@gmail.com   If you run into any problems. 

     

    Check out the forum's new home on CSN, which will be built into a general hub for all Canadian soccer.

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socceronly

How many people here use Patreon?

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I have talked now to a lot people about membership and what to do.   They default is always yearly and scarf.

But people have enough scarves and when you stop and think about, yearly for us is odd.   The local SGs can easily structure their 'year' around the start of a season, everyone is local and the annual nature makes sense. 

The possibility of making it completely arbitrary isn't necessarily a bad one.   Someone in Moosejaw can support, be a part of it do whatever works for them.  

I don't like the idea of 'tiers' as some people have suggested.  There is obviously a big difference between people in a city that gets games and people in a city that never will.   If someone want's to donate $1 a month or $10, it doesn't matter. We are all in the same canoe together and no one is a tier above or below.  In or out. 

Making it completely arbitrary leaves you open to sniping.  For example, let's say the only way to get tickets at cost is to be a supporter.  They sign up via Patreon (or whatever platform) for a month for $1 save a bunch money on tickets and then cancel it.   That is a possibility, but it will also be very easy to see.  We need to make that experience a good one and build on the connection somehow to build long time supporters. 

Accruing some value by continous support might be the answer, but that is just an end run around tiers.

Leaving it wide open for people to make a choice addresses our geographic and temporal challenges wrt to games/events. 

Doing this, even if it is 50 cents a month would give you access to

  • Significant discounts on tickets. (our almost at cost model)
  • Membership benifits we can create with partners.  As the numbers grow, so would the benifits. 
  • Special event access
  • Voting access for things like tifo, merch, awards
  • Increased or maintain site feature access - ignore, blocking, blog, gallery ect....
  • Full site access - We can decide what that means, but definately member only access to planning forums
  • Separate V's store with discounted merchandise and member only merchandise
  • Trips and away games - This is actually necessary to sell trips legally in most of Canada. 

Patreon would not be the only method.  We could use the sites subscriptions system with manual, PayPal and Stripe payment gateways.

Any other ideas people have for membership benifits, please post them  here.
 

 

 

 

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This is not exactly possible. 

The hope was with regular monthly Patreon like payments it would make planning things easier, rather than all being around games. 

The reason being Patreon changed it's fee policy.   It used to be a % of your aggregate, now it is a per transaction fee of 35cents + 2.9%

So someone dontaing $1 a month, Patreon would take 37.9 % of that.  Bastards.  This really kills the micro payment for content model.

We could do an annual amount, they can still set what it is but it would have to be some kind of minimum so we don't end up just paying money to Patreon or Pay Pal. 

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10 minutes ago, socceronly said:

This is not exactly possible. 

The hope was with regular monthly Patreon like payments it would make planning things easier, rather than all being around games. 

The reason being Patreon changed it's fee policy.   It used to be a % of your aggregate, now it is a per transaction fee of 35cents + 2.9%

So someone dontaing $1 a month, Patreon would take 37.9 % of that.  Bastards.  This really kills the micro payment for content model.

We could do an annual amount, they can still set what it is but it would have to be some kind of minimum so we don't end up just paying money to Patreon or Pay Pal. 

Hold on... this might not be accurate. 

EDIT: Nope it does indeed suck. 

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What about quarterly? 

If its $1/month or $3/quarter that would be:

$3 - $0.35 - $0.09 = $2.56 (85% kept)

Or every four months:

$4 - $0.35 - $0.12 = $3.53 (88% kept)

Or an average of $2/month is not over the top either imho. 

Every three months at $2/month:

$6 - $0.35 - $0.17 = $5.48 (91% kept)

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Too bad Venmo isn't in Canada. Top notch.

Whatever you choose even if it's just standard web cc annually, I'd setup a couple levels like Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, whatever.  Figure out the perks of each. Then publish the members who belong to each class on a page and with a badge on their posting profile.

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I've never even heard of Patreon.

One advantage of Pay Pal, is that it's been around long enough that most people are familiar with it. And seems to be ubiquitous.

I know nothing about the financials though.

Do we need a paid membership amount? In days of yon, such things generally covered postage and paper. Is it worth the bother to even track? There could be some income from ticket sales and merchandise.

Would simply passing the hat occasionally to cover other items such as forum costs and wooden paddles work? Is there enough of us willing to throw $20 in occasionally, rather than push a lot of noobs to paying something annually (quarterly, monthly, ....) which creates barriers to entry (if only psychological).

Of course passing the hat works better on a local scale, where we know and trust each other. Though I guess in reality the same is true of a system with fixed dues as well.

 

15 hours ago, Vic said:

Whatever you choose even if it's just standard web cc annually, I'd setup a couple levels like Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, whatever.  Figure out the perks of each. Then publish the members who belong to each class on a page and with a badge on their posting profile.

One option is making the bottom tier free, to encourage people to join.

Edited by nfitz

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On 11/19/2018 at 4:42 PM, rob.notenboom said:

What about quarterly? 

If its $1/month or $3/quarter that would be:

$3 - $0.35 - $0.09 = $2.56 (85% kept)

Or every four months:

$4 - $0.35 - $0.12 = $3.53 (88% kept)

Or an average of $2/month is not over the top either imho. 

Every three months at $2/month:

$6 - $0.35 - $0.17 = $5.48 (91% kept)

I'd be down for any of these options.  I'd personally prefer paying on an annual basis, but I think it is good to allow people to spread it out if that works better for them.

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I would pay a sum a year, basically in the median crowdfunding range, which is proven to be a reliable quantity: 20 is low, 35 is high-ish. If there were a dire need, well expressed, I'd make an exceptional contribution.

Annually, as said. Foolish to increase financial management work by multiple payments. 

I don't need merchandise. Nor an incentive. It has more to do with how I value the site, the project of supporting the game in Canada, and my  financial situation at any given moment. 

I would imagine there would have to be a few hundred others like me. So that might give you 5 grand a year to play with. 

Is it enough Jamie?

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While Patreon might not be the best option its convienient for donaters and small donations. Dont need a paypal account since you can use visa. Alot of youtubers/podcasters make more money through patreon donations then through advertising on Youtube/podcasting ads.

Some Canadian soccer related things on Patreon are 

https://www.patreon.com/sportspodcastingnetwork/overview

https://www.patreon.com/canucksabroad/overview

https://www.patreon.com/NSXI/overview

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7 hours ago, fil said:

 

While Patreon might not be the best option its convienient for donaters and small donations. Dont need a paypal account since you can use visa. Alot of youtubers/podcasters make more money through patreon donations then through advertising on Youtube/podcasting ads.

Some Canadian soccer related things on Patreon are 

https://www.patreon.com/sportspodcastingnetwork/overview

https://www.patreon.com/canucksabroad/overview

https://www.patreon.com/NSXI/overview

You don't need a pay pal account to use PayPal either.

It's possible to by pass logging in. 

 

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On 11/21/2018 at 5:04 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

I would pay a sum a year, basically in the median crowdfunding range, which is proven to be a reliable quantity: 20 is low, 35 is high-ish. If there were a dire need, well expressed, I'd make an exceptional contribution.

Annually, as said. Foolish to increase financial management work by multiple payments. 

I don't need merchandise. Nor an incentive. It has more to do with how I value the site, the project of supporting the game in Canada, and my  financial situation at any given moment. 

I would imagine there would have to be a few hundred others like me. So that might give you 5 grand a year to play with. 

Is it enough Jamie?

I think so.   The site(s) are currently $2400US a year to run ($3300CAD).   I do think that will go up if we are even mildly successful in bringing people on board. 

Initially I had felt that there should only be one single membership level.  A sense that we all contribute the same, and belong to the same thing as one.    Several people have convinced me otherwise, and I think they are correct.  There is ample evidence that there is a much better response to having a gradation of levels.  However, I have been toiling over that to little avail. We are not trying to make money so to speak,  are not a non business pretending to be a non profit.  

The American Outlaws charge $34CAD and you get a shirt and a bandana.  I don't know if they charge for shipping on top of that, but down there, with their numbers I would guess they net about $28 based on the shirt I see.

I get many people have suggested a straight membership fee with no merch option.  I just feel the general public will balk at that. 

So maybe a flat fee with a few merch options and an opt out option.   

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, socceronly said:

I think so.   The site(s) are currently $2400US a year to run ($3300CAD).   I do think that will go up if we are even mildly successful in bringing people on board. 

Initially I had felt that there should only be one single membership level.  A sense that we all contribute the same, and belong to the same thing as one.    Several people have convinced me otherwise, and I think they are correct.  There is ample evidence that there is a much better response to having a gradation of levels.  However, I have been toiling over that to little avail. We are not trying to make money so to speak,  are not a non business pretending to be a non profit.  

The American Outlaws charge $34CAD and you get a shirt and a bandana.  I don't know if they charge for shipping on top of that, but down there, with their numbers I would guess they net about $28 based on the shirt I see.

I get many people have suggested a straight membership fee with no merch option.  I just feel the general public will balk at that. 

So maybe a flat fee with a few merch options and an opt out option.   

Again, if you use the crowdfunding model, there is a logic in tiers. But not too many. You can have a basic supporter, no merch. Then the core level, which is a higher amount including merch, as long as the calculation of shipping is done right. And you choose something that can ship compact and light. Then a premium option, as some people have the money to make that extra step. 

I do not think the levels should mean anything after that, apart from maybe allowing for future discounts on merchandise, or priority ticketing, but never anything hugely different, as we are not talking about asking for really large sums. 

You can always gain a bit of cash flow offering two or 3 years at a proportional discount.

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  • WARNING

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