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The Voyageurs are now officially a federally incorporated non profit

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2 hours ago, The Ref said:

What is unclear to me is why do we have to work with the CSA at all.

Because they control ticketing to NT games? If we want to build something significant towards 2026 we’re going to have to work with them.

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1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Because they control ticketing to NT games? If we want to build something significant towards 2026 we’re going to have to work with them.

Aha! so they have us by the b....s.  Too bad.

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6 hours ago, The Ref said:

Aha! so they have us by the b....s.  Too bad.

I tried to respond above but the quoting seems gorked on that post.

You ask above why we should work with them at all.

They run soccer in this country, and we have already been working with them for years. 

  • They use our trophy for the national championship. 
  • We participate in the presentation of that trophy (though that needs to be improved)
  • Promote our viewing parties through their social network. 
  • Reserve sections for us in stadiums at home and away
  • Hold, significant chunks of stadium inventory unsold until close to the game based solely on trust.
  • Arrange ticket pricing at signficant discounts
  • Arrange space at events like games, soccer shows ect.
  • Link directly to us from their website
  • Feature players using our scarf


Talking about arranging

  • Pre game events (as in days before) with alumni and current players
  • Coordinating Voyageurs awards for in stadium presentations
  • Improving all of the things in the list above. 


We don't do all of these things in spite of the CSA, we do them because of them.  They are good people to work with, helpful and I don't know how many times I have to repeat this before people believe me, but they want us to succeed.   Of course our success means more ticket sales ect... but it is more than that.   It isn't cynical marketing or a bottom line on a spreadsheet. 

We should never stop being critical, but we do need to stop being destructively cynical. 

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Interesting intersection of both groups at an organization level and the individual.

"We don't do all of these things in spite of the CSA, we do them because of them."

Not sure if that is wholly accurate. They didn't setup this organization, they didn't create the cup, etc. The impression from that statement is they are the horse leading the cart but I think it's more the other way around.

A good start is the mission statement of both groups. The CSA's core business is to "promote the growth and development of soccer for all Canadians at all levels and to provide leadership and good governance for the sport." 

The mission and definition of this group is the attached image. What is in green is what this group does, little of which is attributed to the CSA.

The key omission is of course the supporters tickets. Which is huge and a win for both sides - at an NSO level it's pretty embarrassing to not request them for away games, because you look like amateur hacks.  And for all games you can buy in bulk, but it requires a huge amount of coordination (which very thankfully we don't have to do because of them).

"They are good people to work with, helpful and I don't know how many times I have to repeat this before people believe me, but they want us to succeed."

For sure, that would be a great definition of the CSA's marketing group.

On the CSA as a greater entity - everyone has different points of reference and grading the organization's worthiness, value, efficiency and caliber is a very personal thing.  And for the relationship of the marketing group to the organization as a whole - there are a lot of great organizations in this world and a lot of poor ones, either of which could have great or poor marketing arms.

That their marketing group is helpful is great and very fortunate and I'm sure has taken a lot of hard and ongoing work to forge and work on that relationship.

At an organizational level - to engage and interact with the CSA marketing team in a positive and professional manner is SOP for inter-organizational relationships. Both sides negotiate the best they can to acquire the best resources they can receive. That's business 101. And on a macro level the marketing group has little control over the direction of the organization as a whole and isn't the right surface to direct or frame larger issues and politics anyway.

At an individual level - everyone has the right to express their opinion and debate their views (which includes both fully supporting and on the other hand questioning the entire relationship). That's healthy and good process and pardon the histrionics but we are so fortunate to live in a country/society where that is the norm as opposed to control and suppression.

image.gif

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On 10/20/2018 at 12:53 PM, socceronly said:

Yeah, like those optional Ticketmaster fees.... ;)

I think he was talking about a "donation" that could be added on top, which seems odd to me to attach it to ticket sales but I guess if you are already sending money, adding an little extra is easier. Reminds me of the cashier at the grocery store asking me to add $1 for X charity as they are ringing me up.

In regards fundraising directly we have four main ways to raise funds to support our mission:

  1. membership fees - annual dues which I would set around $10 by itself
  2. Ticket add-ons - any ticket sold through us should include a $2-5 "profit" for us
  3. Donations - make it easy for anyone to give us money directly or via fundraising events
  4. Merchandise - would be nice to have some things always available and special event/limited edition stuff 

There are ways to combine and rearrange these (ie. include merch in a membership package) and ways to distribute the work (ie. local affiliated groups hosting fundraising events).

The first two are the most important IMO to establish a stable revenue stream for basic functioning.

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46 minutes ago, Vic said:

Interesting intersection of both groups at an organization level and the individual.

"We don't do all of these things in spite of the CSA, we do them because of them."

Not sure if that is wholly accurate. They didn't setup this organization, they didn't create the cup, etc. The impression from that statement is they are the horse leading the cart but I think it's more the other way around.

A good start is the mission statement of both groups. The CSA's core business is to "promote the growth and development of soccer for all Canadians at all levels and to provide leadership and good governance for the sport." 

The mission and definition of this group is the attached image. What is in green is what this group does, little of which is attributed to the CSA.

The key omission is of course the supporters tickets. Which is huge and a win for both sides - at an NSO level it's pretty embarrassing to not request them for away games, because you look like amateur hacks.  And for all games you can buy in bulk, but it requires a huge amount of coordination (which very thankfully we don't have to do because of them).

"They are good people to work with, helpful and I don't know how many times I have to repeat this before people believe me, but they want us to succeed."

For sure, that would be a great definition of the CSA's marketing group.

On the CSA as a greater entity - everyone has different points of reference and grading the organization's worthiness, value, efficiency and caliber is a very personal thing.  And for the relationship of the marketing group to the organization as a whole - there are a lot of great organizations in this world and a lot of poor ones, either of which could have great or poor marketing arms.

That their marketing group is helpful is great and very fortunate and I'm sure has taken a lot of hard and ongoing work to forge and work on that relationship.

At an organizational level - to engage and interact with the CSA marketing team in a positive and professional manner is SOP for inter-organizational relationships. Both sides negotiate the best they can to acquire the best resources they can receive. That's business 101. And on a macro level the marketing group has little control over the direction of the organization as a whole and isn't the right surface to direct or frame larger issues and politics anyway.

At an individual level - everyone has the right to express their opinion and debate their views (which includes both fully supporting and on the other hand questioning the entire relationship). That's healthy and good process and pardon the histrionics but we are so fortunate to live in a country/society where that is the norm as opposed to control and suppression.

image.gif

I think you are responding to things way outside the scope intended by that response. 

I was trying to address why we work with the CSA.  There are people on this site who still play the Front Office is evil game and find all of their legitimacy through anger.   The last sentence addresses people's ability to be critical without being bat shit crazy, which we still have a lot of. 

I am not attributing our existence to them, there is no need to move the goalposts that far wrt to that response. 

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1 hour ago, ted said:

I think he was talking about a "donation" that could be added on top, which seems odd to me to attach it to ticket sales but I guess if you are already sending money, adding an little extra is easier. Reminds me of the cashier at the grocery store asking me to add $1 for X charity as they are ringing me up.

In regards fundraising directly we have four main ways to raise funds to support our mission:

  1. membership fees - annual dues which I would set around $10 by itself
  2. Ticket add-ons - any ticket sold through us should include a $2-5 "profit" for us
  3. Donations - make it easy for anyone to give us money directly or via fundraising events
  4. Merchandise - would be nice to have some things always available and special event/limited edition stuff 

There are ways to combine and rearrange these (ie. include merch in a membership package) and ways to distribute the work (ie. local affiliated groups hosting fundraising events).

The first two are the most important IMO to establish a stable revenue stream for basic functioning.

My response there was sarcastic wrt to TM Fees.

However,  I tried adding things onto tickets and it didn't work out well.  This was back in 2012ish times and things might be different now. 

1.  Agree, this will happen and needs to happen so that there is a predictable revenue source.  Membership will be addressed after the incorporation structure is finalized or rather restructured from the current non profit. 

2. I think the scalping laws changed, but it was my name on the damn tickets which we have since fixed.  It is now The Voyageurs and not me thankfully. Some standard fee would be good idea.  To cover costs for 2018, those ticket fees would need to be at least $3-$7 depending on what you consider a cost,  and that is only with 20/20 hindsight and a slow (low game) year.

3. I went through two donation modules.  Both died and mangled the data.  I can rebuild that data through sorting through 12 years of Pay Pal logs and I will get to it but dreading the thought.

4. Yes to general merch, member only merch and special events.   I have several other posts that outline why this is not simple to do and where the risk financially becomes a problem.  There are definately solutions to all of these. 

 

 

 

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When did we originally started?  I remember the very old board but can't remember its name.  The number 54 kind of rings a bell but I may be way off.

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I remember Reza. Is he still here, but under a different handle? I also remember the old BBS forum: it was hooked up to some power generator fueled by moonshine and crushed dreams. Back then we thought Wyn Belotte would be our messiah. Hell, we figured lotsa fellas would save the Nats. Seems like forever ago. What ever happened to that Owen Hargreaves feller? Did we cap tie him yet?

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On 11/2/2018 at 5:59 PM, The Ref said:

When did we originally started?  I remember the very old board but can't remember its name.  The number 54 kind of rings a bell but I may be way off.

It was network 54.  Not to be confused with studio 54.

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August 15, 2000

This is it soccer fans, the beginning of a long journey which we hope will have a beautiful ending!

In April of 1996, what was long overdue finally came through! It was the start of the Voyageurs Supporters Club, Canada's own fan club at last!

Inspired by the rapid growth of soccer in Canada and after years of poor support for Canada both in terms of numbers and quality of fans, the Voyageurs were formed.

From the first day, we set our goal to change the atmosphere of Canadian stadiums gradually. We set our goal to gradually make sure that when Canada plays at home, it won't feel just like another away game to Azteca. We set our goal to bring all soccer fans together and give some support to our sport.

So, if you are a real soccer fan, then, Voyageurs should be what you have been looking for. If you are a Canuck Patriot, then indeed joining the Voyageurs should be in line with your feelings. If you are both, then, you have n o reason to think otherwise.

Join us and help soccer in Canada and Canada's National Soccer Team!

thevoyageurs@hotmail.com

Site created by John Mark Mikhail, maintained by Reza Khalili.

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My first memories of the Vs was when I saw their presence at the UofA website. 

Somehow I was the last guy to have the keys to the Net54 website.  I just tried to go there to see if it still worked but it looks like it's been taken over by tapatalk.  I wonder if Net54 links posted here still work or do you have to use the wayback machine.

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3 hours ago, Free kick said:

It was network 54.  Not to be confused with studio 54.

As we are coming up to a 30th year anniversary we should have some special edition of something.

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13 hours ago, The Beaver said:

Back then we thought Wyn Belotte would be our messiah. Hell, we figured lotsa fellas would save the Nats.

If you want a blast from the past go here

I seem to recall there were these two mystery guys that played in Scotland who seemed to get a lot of airplay for some unknown reason: Russel Huggon, Emilio Botiglieri

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1 minute ago, The Ref said:

As we are coming up to a 30th year anniversary we should have some special edition of something.

Was on board for doing that with the 20th, but I just couldn't put down the amount of money required at the time.

How do you get 30th?  25th I think would be 2021. 

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In honour of our history, we should name something Net 54. I honestly do not know what, but I just want to plant that seed.  If we had a blog, maybe it would be called "Net 54".  Or something like that.  It is important to maintain links to our history, which is something all good organizations/cultures do. And it is kind of fun. "The Net 54: This Day in Canadian Soccer History." Just spit-balling here.

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4 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

If you want a blast from the past go here

I seem to recall there were these two mystery guys that played in Scotland who seemed to get a lot of airplay for some unknown reason: Russel Huggon, Emilio Botiglieri

Beautiful! Thank you. Wow, lots of time has passed. I remember when we were so damned excited when Jazic finally agreed to play for the Nats, not to mention whenever Radzinski would actually say YES to a call-up.  Brad Parker!  And I really thought Nsaliwa would become something special, especially with his time in Germany.  You made my Saturday! (And also but now I feel real old.)

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2 hours ago, The Beaver said:

Beautiful! Thank you. Wow, lots of time has passed. I remember when we were so damned excited when Jazic finally agreed to play for the Nats, not to mention whenever Radzinski would actually say YES to a call-up.  Brad Parker!  And I really thought Nsaliwa would become something special, especially with his time in Germany.  You made my Saturday! (And also but now I feel real old.)

Funny you mentioned those names because those are the ones that popped out to me as well.  Rad was not in the EPL and was still at Anderlecht (which was a big deal then) and the infamous Brad Parker.  I had the Brad Parker curse where anyone who refused a callup seemed to suffer some sort of misfortune, unfortunately that seemed to die with the Ho, and God bless Davies for hopefully now making it a moot point.

I looked at the list and that was not the one where I thought we should come up with a new Moaca.  I think I derived that from BigSoccer and CdnSupporter?  I wonder if I can find that.

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2 hours ago, The Beaver said:

In honour of our history, we should name something Net 54. I honestly do not know what, but I just want to plant that seed.  If we had a blog, maybe it would be called "Net 54".  Or something like that.  It is important to maintain links to our history, which is something all good organizations/cultures do. And it is kind of fun. "The Net 54: This Day in Canadian Soccer History." Just spit-balling here.

The Luis Rancagua Net54 Memorial blog.  :)

I took my name from him and finally posted (after lurking for years until I figured I had enough knowledge to post)

My name is actually a misspelling from the old NY Yankees manager and the infamous senator Joe McCarthy.

Grizzly February 5, 2004

Re Wyn Belotte

"Maybe he should join the team where Brad Parker and Joey Torchia are playing. Don't know what team that might be but maybe Luis can fill us in :-)"

Edited by Joe MacCarthy

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From a screen capture (Canadian Soccer Web) from November 27 1999  - some of the links still work.

Voyageurs Soccer Talk - Earliest available posts from Net54 October 1 2000.  Posts aren't working but you get the gist of what was going on back then and who was around.  I'll keep digging, those posts must be available somehow.

Edit: Posts are available, except for page one, it's working very weird now

Might as well keep adding to the history while I'm here

This is the link where the Moaca began to change  from the start it was given by CdnSupporter at BigSoccer, to my wanting to clarify it more.

The above evolved into this

CSA Website April 7 2000

Edited by Joe MacCarthy

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