Jump to content
ted

Local affiliates?

Recommended Posts

So a while ago we created Voyageurs "chapters" in local communities. Here in Victoria we went with an identity we have been half-jokingly using for nearly 20 years: Fort Victoria Voyageurs (FVV). Today the reality is that virtually everyone who shows up for CMNT matches is also at the same time a member of the Lake Side Buoys. The overlap is 100%. It makes it hard to promote things like the viewing party when I have to play with two different identities and multiple social media accounts.

Is there a way we could formally affiliate local supporters clubs with the Voyageurs? We are already a member of the ISC, and it would be nice if we could just be ourselves and be an affiliate or whatever of the Voyageurs and be included in offers and promotions for events.

Now, I understand that going forward the two "groups" could split and be very different memberships, but that seems remote. Is that the objection or are there other things I'm missing?  Connecting local fans with the national program seems like a natural fit.

It seems like a good time to sort this out, with CanPL looming and our numbers set to increase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ted said:

So a while ago we created Voyageurs "chapters" in local communities. Here in Victoria we went with an identity we have been half-jokingly using for nearly 20 years: Fort Victoria Voyageurs (FVV). Today the reality is that virtually everyone who shows up for CMNT matches is also at the same time a member of the Lake Side Buoys. The overlap is 100%. It makes it hard to promote things like the viewing party when I have to play with two different identities and multiple social media accounts.

Is there a way we could formally affiliate local supporters clubs with the Voyageurs? We are already a member of the ISC, and it would be nice if we could just be ourselves and be an affiliate or whatever of the Voyageurs and be included in offers and promotions for events.

Now, I understand that going forward the two "groups" could split and be very different memberships, but that seems remote. Is that the objection or are there other things I'm missing?  Connecting local fans with the national program seems like a natural fit.

It seems like a good time to sort this out, with CanPL looming and our numbers set to increase.

 

One of the reasons I did that, with the FB groups was for what was supposed to be ease of / organization of events.  FB lets you create the group heirarchy but no connections between them.   F*&()^ing useless. 

I think it makes the most sense for the local SG's organize, and possibly meet new people in the process. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, exceptions may be in the big three where you have multiple supporters groups. 

Those should probably be organized under the V's name such that there is no (less) petty bullshit involved. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Voyageurs name is all but dead in Calgary as far as I'm concerned. Until the problems that I had mentioned in the "what should we do with the Voyageurs forums" are cleaned up, which they haven't been, I don't think the perspective of the Voyageurs changes much in the mind of local supporters here. 

There is a definite cross section of supporters for Cavalry FC / Calgary Foothills and the national team, but it is fairly small. National team supporters haven't really supported local clubs, and vice-a-versa. With the advent of CPL, the local supporters scene is growing, and perhaps with that comes better support of the national team, but I really don't think there will be any momentum until the 2019 Gold Cup at the earliest on that front.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, shermanator said:

The Voyageurs name is all but dead in Calgary as far as I'm concerned. Until the problems that I had mentioned in the "what should we do with the Voyageurs forums" are cleaned up, which they haven't been, I don't think the perspective of the Voyageurs changes much in the mind of local supporters here. 

There is a definite cross section of supporters for Cavalry FC / Calgary Foothills and the national team, but it is fairly small. National team supporters haven't really supported local clubs, and vice-a-versa. With the advent of CPL, the local supporters scene is growing, and perhaps with that comes better support of the national team, but I really don't think there will be any momentum until the 2019 Gold Cup at the earliest on that front.

 

The Voyageurs have existed only in spirit now for decades.  (That will change this week) It is the spirit of the people in these cities that keeps it alive. 

You'll have to remind me or link to the post you speak of wrt to the forum.  The forum is the only thing we have, even in the cities that get games, that keeps us together. 

I hope with the coming changes we can do more national things and provide some real value, whatever that may be to everyone across the country.   Our fist national effort will  be the creation of the largest tifo this country has ever seen at the opening WCQ game, whenever/wherever that will be.

There is a positivity towards the mens side right now that it's possible to say we have never seen.  It has not translated into ticket sales for this game... but it will in the future unless things really really go sideways. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Below is the post I am referring to. In the 3 months since this post, nothing has changed. So, the public perception of the Voyageurs amongst those in Calgary (which may or may not be a high percentage of people interested in the national team, I have no idea) that I talk to is the same. That this board is just a bunch of nutters with a lot of really good posters who've gone silent.

Promises and platitudes about all the great things to come won't change this. 

In Calgary, I'd say interest in the national team is at its highest since I've started following them, but interest in the Voyageurs is at its lowest. All the momentum we had built in Calgary through World Cup qualifying through Gold Cup 2017 is gone. For the Gold Cup QF I was able to get 30 people out to a game on a Wednesday night at 5:30 pm, but for a CNL game against Dominica I can't even get 1 person committed. Perhaps we will regain some momentum as CPL kicks off their first season, and we can get watch parties for games, such as Gold Cup and World Cup Qualification, that are at a time when people can watch them.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, shermanator said:

Below is the post I am referring to. In the 3 months since this post, nothing has changed. So, the public perception of the Voyageurs amongst those in Calgary (which may or may not be a high percentage of people interested in the national team, I have no idea) that I talk to is the same. That this board is just a bunch of nutters with a lot of really good posters who've gone silent.

Promises and platitudes about all the great things to come won't change this. 

In Calgary, I'd say interest in the national team is at its highest since I've started following them, but interest in the Voyageurs is at its lowest. All the momentum we had built in Calgary through World Cup qualifying through Gold Cup 2017 is gone. For the Gold Cup QF I was able to get 30 people out to a game on a Wednesday night at 5:30 pm, but for a CNL game against Dominica I can't even get 1 person committed. Perhaps we will regain some momentum as CPL kicks off their first season, and we can get watch parties for games, such as Gold Cup and World Cup Qualification, that are at a time when people can watch them.

 

Out of curiosity, I went to that thread to find out exactly what your qualm was, and it appears to be moderation, or rather a lack thereof. 

You mentioned certain posters driving people away from this board. 

Aside from the obvious trolls over the years, which I can count on one hand, I struggle to identify any poster that drives people away because they are "crazy", so you must be talking about the trolls. However, perhaps I am just deft and there really are established posters here who drive people away, and I just haven't noticed.

Social media aside, I don't participate in any other forum on the internet, soccer or otherwise, so perhaps my perspective doesn't count for much, but I perfectly happy with this site. I spend time participating on this forum because I am very passionate about Canadian soccer. Simple as that.

I am sure you have your finger on the pulse of how Voyageurs are perceived in the supporter community in Calgary, but that is still a very small subset of people interested in Canadian soccer. 

That being the case, I can't help but feel that you are making a mountain out of a molehill when you say the Voyageurs has a negative reputation. The truth is that most people with an interest in Canadian soccer don't even know about the Voyageurs. 

It is also true, I think, that 99% of people interested in Canadian soccer only have a fleeting interest at best, which is (obviously) because we chronically lose and are not in the public consciousnesses, unless it's for how bad we are. Some of you may think such people aren't interested in Canadian soccer, but I believe they are interested. They just need something to get interested in and excited about. That will come with results, I am certain of that.

Anyways, this really strays away from the original post, but just wanted to share my thoughts with you guys. 

And Sherm, I am sure I am not alone in saying that you are missed around here. And I also appreciate the work you do organizing events in the city. Keep in mind that CNL is a brand new competition and we're talking about a one-off qualifying tournament. Throw in the challenging kick off time and of course interest will be much lower than the Gold Cup, let alone WCQ. But keep up the good work that you do! 

Edited by Obinna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few posters really dominated the CanPL stuff in a way that was really destructive and irritating.   They did a lot of damage we lost many regular posters.   But they were also just posting their opinions, as grindingly soul crushing and relentlentless as it was.   

As I stated I would not tolerate anymore Godwin's law posts, and there haven't to my knowledge been any since.  We even banned a few people..... 

What more is there?  How far do you want me to go?   

I think this is really a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.   You can't let a few negative nancy's demolish support for the national team in an entire city.   If you take a step back, I think it's pretty clear that this forum at its worst doesn't even cast a pale shadow compared to the fuckery on social media and other toxic comment dumps you can find on the Internet. 

As for  " Promises and platitudes about all the great things to come won't change this"...

I'm not exactly sure what it is I was supposed to do.  It's been stop and go,  with huge wastelands of nothing happening for years on end.  I am not sure what it is I was supposed to build in that time with nothing happening and worse than no money, negative money year after year. 

Things have changed.  There is a future worth investing in now and it's time to take this off the life support system that is my credit card.

What is it we can do for these disenfranchised souls in Calgary?   I can "promise" that I will very likely be in Calgary with a booth at a certain soccer show that is allegedly happening in your city next year.  I can also "promise" that I'll be the one paying for it,  just as I did for the show in Toronto, and that is a choice I will keep stubbornly  making until this thing goes somewhere.  Now I have no control over that show happening or not, plans could change but I certianly hope it does happen because I really like going to Calgary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Obinna said:

Out of curiosity, I went to that thread to find out exactly what your qualm was, and it appears to be moderation, or rather a lack thereof. 

You mentioned certain posters driving people away from this board. 

Aside from the obvious trolls over the years, which I can count on one hand, I struggle to identify any poster that drives people away because they are "crazy", so you must be talking about the trolls. However, perhaps I am just deft and there really are established posters here who drive people away, and I just haven't noticed.

Social media aside, I don't participate in any other forum on the internet, soccer or otherwise, so perhaps my perspective doesn't count for much, but I perfectly happy with this site. I spend time participating on this forum because I am very passionate about Canadian soccer. Simple as that.

I am sure you have your finger on the pulse of how Voyageurs are perceived in the supporter community in Calgary, but that is still a very small subset of people interested in Canadian soccer. 

That being the case, I can't help but feel that you are making a mountain out of a molehill when you say the Voyageurs has a negative reputation. The truth is that most people with an interest in Canadian soccer don't even know about the Voyageurs. 

It is also true, I think, that 99% of people interested in Canadian soccer only have a fleeting interest at best, which is (obviously) because we chronically lose and are not in the public consciousnesses, unless it's for how bad we are. Some of you may think such people aren't interested in Canadian soccer, but I believe they are interested. They just need something to get interested in and excited about. That will come with results, I am certain of that.

Anyways, this really strays away from the original post, but just wanted to share my thoughts with you guys. 

And Sherm, I am sure I am not alone in saying that you are missed around here. And I also appreciate the work you do organizing events in the city. Keep in mind that CNL is a brand new competition and we're talking about a one-off qualifying tournament. Throw in the challenging kick off time and of course interest will be much lower than the Gold Cup, let alone WCQ. But keep up the good work that you do! 

I'm just passing on what I hear. But it's not just from people in Calgary. It's from people I talk to in Edmonton, Regina, Saskatoon, Kitchener, Ottawa, etc. Some are long time V's who are ingrained in the lore of the group. Maybe it's just the people I talk to, but the sentiment is very much real. If that is a small fraction of those interested in the national team, then that would be awesome. 

Also, appreciate the kind words. As I mentioned earlier, perhaps we rebuild some of that momentum when CPL and Gold Cup gets underway next year. I do always enjoy watching games with you @Obinna

3 hours ago, socceronly said:

A few posters really dominated the CanPL stuff in a way that was really destructive and irritating.   They did a lot of damage we lost many regular posters.   But they were also just posting their opinions, as grindingly soul crushing and relentlentless as it was.   

As I stated I would not tolerate anymore Godwin's law posts, and there haven't to my knowledge been any since.  We even banned a few people..... 

What more is there?  How far do you want me to go?   

I think this is really a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.   You can't let a few negative nancy's demolish support for the national team in an entire city.   If you take a step back, I think it's pretty clear that this forum at its worst doesn't even cast a pale shadow compared to the fuckery on social media and other toxic comment dumps you can find on the Internet. 

As for  " Promises and platitudes about all the great things to come won't change this"...

I'm not exactly sure what it is I was supposed to do.  It's been stop and go,  with huge wastelands of nothing happening for years on end.  I am not sure what it is I was supposed to build in that time with nothing happening and worse than no money, negative money year after year. 

Things have changed.  There is a future worth investing in now and it's time to take this off the life support system that is my credit card.

What is it we can do for these disenfranchised souls in Calgary?   I can "promise" that I will very likely be in Calgary with a booth at a certain soccer show that is allegedly happening in your city next year.  I can also "promise" that I'll be the one paying for it,  just as I did for the show in Toronto, and that is a choice I will keep stubbornly  making until this thing goes somewhere.  Now I have no control over that show happening or not, plans could change but I certianly hope it does happen because I really like going to Calgary.

That's the thing, people have let the few posters who overwhelm discussion drive people away. One poster, who was an obvious troll,. was banned. And even then, you had to start a thread asking people what to do about them. Because certain posters constantly expressing their opinion ad nauseum has continued and will continue to drive people away. And those posters are still here.

Perhaps I'm being harsh here, so I'll focus on what the positives I've heard are. I've heard the away trips are legendary. While I myself have not had a good time in a V's section (small sample size), I've heard great things about home games. Perhaps if you filter money made via Voyageurs initiatives at the national team level to help out local SG's, that will help strengthen the bond between the two. IIRC, wasn't this what the CanPL 2018 t-shirts supposed to do? 

I'm not exactly sure what further feedback I can give, considering there is nothing public on what's actually coming. I think a major issue here is that everything that is done by this group appears seems to be single sourced through you with very limited or last minute information. The post below, while a little extreme, kind of sums up how things appear.

Or is that what the whole "local chapters" thing is trying to alleviate? I have no idea. 

So I guess my feedback is to be more transparent. Build a plan for 2019 that is public for all to see, get feedback, actually start and finish the items on the plan, get more feedback, and continue on. There's a tifo happening for WC 2019? Sounds great, put that on the public plan. Communication is key.

Here's an example of what we do in Calgary. Chatter over a supporters trophy for Cavalry / Edmonton builds after some friendlies, and we want to set it up. We elect a small group from each SG to meet in Red Deer to outline our plan for the trophy. Prior to the meeting, I reach out to those not at the meeting to get suggestions. The group meets, and we outline our plan. We tell our respective groups what the plan is, and get feedback on how to move forward. Now we execute on the plan.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@shermanator @Obinna

Thank you guys for echoing the same sentiment I feel and share. I'm sure there are many others.

I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it until I see some kinda of change in regard to the organization/hierarchy. (Apparently it should be happening soon)

One man simply can't do it all.

All I see is one man organizing the away games, one man organizing merchandising, one man moderating the forum, one man adminning the website, one man liaising with the CSA, one man organizing TIFOs, one man organizing booths, one man ultimately making decisions for an "organization" that is suppose to be a for Canadian national team fans and future supporters. 

TBH I feel that this is a one man's business where I'm only considered a customer too when I want to be a partner. And I'll say this....it doesn't have to be me involved...my feelings aren't weak. I just want to know there is a team making decisions vs one man.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

@shermanator @Obinna

Thank you guys for echoing the same sentiment I feel and share. I'm sure there are many others.

I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it until I see some kinda of change in regard to the organization/hierarchy. (Apparently it should be happening soon)

One man simply can't do it all.

All I see is one man organizing the away games, one man organizing merchandising, one man moderating the forum, one man adminning the website, one man liaising with the CSA, one man organizing TIFOs, one man organizing booths, one man ultimately making decisions for an "organization" that is suppose to be a for Canadian national team fans and future supporters. 

TBH I feel that this is a one man's business where I'm only considered a customer too when I want to be a partner. And I'll say this....it doesn't have to be me involved...my feelings aren't weak. I just want to know there is a team making decisions vs one man.

 

This simply isn't true.   World's shittiest business by the way.....  it's interesting how many people are coming out of the woodwork after we get a World Cup and the Nations League.  They were not around after we lost 8-1 and tanked out of each WCQ run. 

I think some people are comparing their club SG experience where everyone is local, they can meet every week and they have regular games with what we do.    

The problem isn't that I have been making decisions, the problem is I haven't been making them.  We have been totally stagnent.   

Decision wise this 'organization' has has been an internet forum occasionaly interrupted by games. 

I actually consult with a lot of people.  People who have been here through thick and thin from Montreal to Toronto to Saskatchewan to Edmonton to Vancouver.  I can think of a dozen off the top of my head I ask before doing almost anything. I am meeting with two people from Ottawa on Tuesday to discuss building a plan going into 2026. Why? because they are experts at doing that kind of thing, I'm not.  

The only two things in your list above that are accurate are dealing with the CSA and administering the website. 

The CSA wanted it this way, becuase when it was the wild west, 20 different people would call them, it was chaos.   A modicum of organization on our part led to dedicated sections and the amazing releationship we have now. 

The website is administered by me.  We did need more people in the past, and had more people doing it when it was a dedicated server a decade ago and a PIA to operate updating the OS, Apache, PHP ect....    Now it runs on a cloud based service and encounters almost zero problems or downtime.   

Other things in that list are all managed by other people. 

Travel is run by Trevor and Danielle. 
Design & graphics by Annie and Tony P. 
Tifo is usually run by King Dave, Zach, multiple awesome guys at Raincity.

Some of the people now, just getting started, doing stuff like legal work and accounting I won't name just yet as professionals it's not clear job wise what the implications are to me. 

The business side of this, if that is even a word that can be used. 

Merchandising is far more complex, expensive and risky than people think.  Take a $6000 investment in scarves that cost $12 each and net roughly $8.  This may sound good to the budding entrepenuer if you could sell them in a reasonable amount of time instead of 6 years.  When in that cycle do you spend another 6k on a new scarf?

I sell shirts for $10 at games. They are three color silk screened shirts in two locations front and back. Price those out and you can see there is no money there.  A couple of dollars, but that is only because I make them on demand and bought the equipment to do it. 

In 2018 we have had ten orders from the website , comprising of I think16 items and sold about 30 scarves at events.   

Ticketing, which I should be doing right now, we round up the ticket price after TM and Pay Pal fees. I think we make a grand total of 28 cents per ticket on this game.   28 cents is not worth 800 emails, phone calls and the work doing this entails (and this is a small game).    I do it because  I choose to, not because it makes money.   Handing this off to a volunteer to do every game would be a disaster for a variety of reasons. 

Does it mean any of this should be run this way?  No it doesn't, I think it sucks and now is the time to change it. 


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've lurked the forums since 2008, joined in 2011 and it has been a consistent part of my everyday life. Again I'll level with you..... You named people that I have no idea about. I asked this question before, and now have got names that it seems like your just listing vs it being official. Whether true or not, there isn't a place on the site that makes any mention of this stuff. 

As far as the merchandising goes, I've given my opinion on this multiple times. But I'll give it again. It's straight up not appealing to the generation we should be targeting. You mentioned 2018 sales, which should show you a trend in how in how its be marketed or say something about the product itself. Especially if it's been in cycle for a long time. I want to rep, I want to support, I want to show it to the soccer community I'm strongly around but I know the perception I would get.... Nor do I want another house shirt. 

The ticketing stuff, you're taking me cynical if you think that I'm suggesting a volunteer do those things that are so complex. All I'm saying is you can't do it all - but a team of volunteers can help.

All I see is @socceronly starts all the decision making threads. And you may consult with other people, but who are they for everyone to know, who are they to be a liason for yourself when someone wants to put in a TIFO idea, shirt idea, website idea etc. 

I feel like I'm using a megaphone in an empty room, but I know I'm not the only one.... Or maybe they see the thevoyageurs.org as simply just a forum. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, socceronly said:

Merchandising is far more complex, expensive and risky than people think.  Take a $6000 investment in scarves that cost $12 each and net roughly $8.  This may sound good to the budding entrepenuer if you could sell them in a reasonable amount of time instead of 6 years.  When in that cycle do you spend another 6k on a new scarf?

I've experience with materials and operations management, so I can help with determining your reorder point (ROP).

On the new scarf order, this can be figured out using supply calculations. First, you'll want to know what kind of lead time is required between putting in an order, and receiving the order. Next, calculate the number of scarves you would sell in that period of time. I personally like to build in a 10% buffer on top of that number, in case there's a sudden run.

Looking at the 500 scarves sold over a 6-year period, that puts you at an average of 1.6 scarves sold per week. Let's round that to 2. If it takes 3-weeks for your scarf order to arrive from the time you put it in, there isn't much point of putting in another $6k order until you're down to 7 scarves (rounding up the 10% rush-buffer). This number seems pretty low, but given the time frame and quantity sold, any more than that is just costing you storage space. I'd probably push it up to 20 or 30 scarves as your re-order point if there's a national team match or booth event coming up where you expect to sell in excess of your reserve.

It'll be important to re-assess your reserve to adjust for more recent sales rates given the changes coming. If we use a 5-year rolling weight, you can put 45% weight to the most recent year, 25% to the 2nd most recent, 15% to the 3rd, 10% to the 4th and 5% to the 5th. Adjust the weighting to put more/less weight on different years, but always keep the most weight on the most recent. You can also choose to weigh by quarter (heavier in the spring/summer, lighter in the fall/winter), use only the most recent year's data, or however you feel like breaking it up.

As an example:

2018: 46 (from your sales number above)

2017: 150 (Gold Cup year, assuming higher than typical sales)

2016: 75 (random number)

2015: 175 (Gold Cup year, partially hosted in Canada)

2014: 54 (random number)

(46/52*0.45)+(150/52*0.25)+(75/52*0.15)+(175/52*0.1)+(54/52*.05)) = 1.72 / wk

At a 3-week lead time for stock to arrive from manufacturer, you'll need an ROP of 3 * 1.72 * 1.1 (buffer) = 6 scarves (rounded up)

If 2019's sales were 150 scarves, then the new weekly average would move:

(150/52*0.45)+(46/52*0.25)+(150/52*0.15)+(175/52*0.1)+(175/52*.05) = 2.26 / wk

This would in turn push the ROP to 3 * 2.26 * 1.1 = 8 scarves (rounded up)

I'd recommend recalculating your ROP quarterly, dropping off the oldest quarter and adding on the newest, but if you're familiar with statistics, you can also adjust for seasonality. It isn't an issue you need to really consider/worry about at the moment given your extremely low sales-rate, but hopefully will be at some point down the line.

--

3 hours ago, socceronly said:

In 2018 we have had ten orders from the website , comprising of I think 16 items and sold about 30 scarves at events.   

In 2018 I believe I ordered 12 items (10 scarves, 1 hat, 1 toque, plus a ticket) as one of your last orders before you closed up the shop. So the total number of items ordered has to be a little higher than 16, but given the rest of your comments, the point is still very valid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

I've lurked the forums since 2008, joined in 2011 and it has been a consistent part of my everyday life. Again I'll level with you..... You named people that I have no idea about. I asked this question before, and now have got names that it seems like your just listing vs it being official. Whether true or not, there isn't a place on the site that makes any mention of this stuff. 

As far as the merchandising goes, I've given my opinion on this multiple times. But I'll give it again. It's straight up not appealing to the generation we should be targeting. You mentioned 2018 sales, which should show you a trend in how in how its be marketed or say something about the product itself. Especially if it's been in cycle for a long time. I want to rep, I want to support, I want to show it to the soccer community I'm strongly around but I know the perception I would get.... Nor do I want another house shirt. 

The ticketing stuff, you're taking me cynical if you think that I'm suggesting a volunteer do those things that are so complex. All I'm saying is you can't do it all - but a team of volunteers can help.

All I see is @socceronly starts all the decision making threads. And you may consult with other people, but who are they for everyone to know, who are they to be a liason for yourself when someone wants to put in a TIFO idea, shirt idea, website idea etc. 

I feel like I'm using a megaphone in an empty room, but I know I'm not the only one.... Or maybe they see the thevoyageurs.org as simply just a forum. 

Just to be clear, I think all of this is really good. 

But I need to make it clear, I'm not making anything up nor am I running a secret business on the side which is what it feels like is being suggested. 

Those are real people I listed.  You can meet at least four of them on Tuesday if you want. 

Wrt to merchandising you are 100% correct.  I intend to have it all revamped and dealt with far more professionally than it is now.  But it's not going on my  credit card anymore and I am not going assume any more of the risk.   We are talking about moving from made on demand items with no inventory that cost $6 to an inventory of items that may cost $20-$60 per unit or more by way of what's been suggested.  That is a huge change. I have been operating in the realm of what I can afford, and being careful not to end up buggered like I was in 2012. 

I have tried multiple times to put councils of people together. Via forums, chat groups, meetings ect...  There was just not enough going on to hold  anyones attention, and understandably so.  Let's call those the dark ages.   Almost everything up to this point has been pure life support and nothing but pure stubborness on my part not to give up on it.  I'm glad I didn't because we are now out of the dark ages and we now have the opportunity to have people like yourself jump in on things like merchandising.   

Now everything is different. It's why this conversation is even happening.  Our future is based on the following.  We will be a federally incorporated non profit with regular games to go to and a goal that is a home World Cup in 2026. 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rintaran said:

I've experience with materials and operations management, so I can help with determining your reorder point (ROP).

On the new scarf order, this can be figured out using supply calculations. First, you'll want to know what kind of lead time is required between putting in an order, and receiving the order. Next, calculate the number of scarves you would sell in that period of time. I personally like to build in a 10% buffer on top of that number, in case there's a sudden run.

Looking at the 500 scarves sold over a 6-year period, that puts you at an average of 1.6 scarves sold per week. Let's round that to 2. If it takes 3-weeks for your scarf order to arrive from the time you put it in, there isn't much point of putting in another $6k order until you're down to 7 scarves (rounding up the 10% rush-buffer). This number seems pretty low, but given the time frame and quantity sold, any more than that is just costing you storage space. I'd probably push it up to 20 or 30 scarves as your re-order point if there's a national team match or booth event coming up where you expect to sell in excess of your reserve.

It'll be important to re-assess your reserve to adjust for more recent sales rates given the changes coming. If we use a 5-year rolling weight, you can put 45% weight to the most recent year, 25% to the 2nd most recent, 15% to the 3rd, 10% to the 4th and 5% to the 5th. Adjust the weighting to put more/less weight on different years, but always keep the most weight on the most recent. You can also choose to weigh by quarter (heavier in the spring/summer, lighter in the fall/winter), use only the most recent year's data, or however you feel like breaking it up.

As an example:

2018: 46 (from your sales number above)

2017: 150 (Gold Cup year, assuming higher than typical sales)

2016: 75 (random number)

2015: 175 (Gold Cup year, partially hosted in Canada)

2014: 54 (random number)

(46/52*0.45)+(150/52*0.25)+(75/52*0.15)+(175/52*0.1)+(54/52*.05)) = 1.72 / wk

At a 3-week lead time for stock to arrive from manufacturer, you'll need an ROP of 3 * 1.72 * 1.1 (buffer) = 6 scarves (rounded up)

If 2019's sales were 150 scarves, then the new weekly average would move:

(150/52*0.45)+(46/52*0.25)+(150/52*0.15)+(175/52*0.1)+(175/52*.05) = 2.26 / wk

This would in turn push the ROP to 3 * 2.26 * 1.1 = 8 scarves (rounded up)

I'd recommend recalculating your ROP quarterly, dropping off the oldest quarter and adding on the newest, but if you're familiar with statistics, you can also adjust for seasonality. It isn't an issue you need to really consider/worry about at the moment given your extremely low sales-rate, but hopefully will be at some point down the line.

--

In 2018 I believe I ordered 12 items (10 scarves, 1 hat, 1 toque, plus a ticket) as one of your last orders before you closed up the shop. So the total number of items ordered has to be a little higher than 16, but given the rest of your comments, the point is still very valid.

Ah yes. that order. I just looked across the invoices and quickly counted the number of different items per order, doesn't show the quntity in the title.

This is such an awesome example demonstrating the amount of thought that goes on behind the scenes of things many people simply take for granted.

One point of confusion is that a local SG will order a number of scarves based on interest with people they meet regularly.  They know to order 120 because 90 of them are pre paid.   The risk is low. We don't get that luxury.

I think you need another variable in your equations though.   Let's call it H . H is an important factor.  Let's say you buy like 10K in merchandise and then your team goes to Honduras and shits the bed so bad people are still talking about it a decade later.   Let's call it the static inventory coefficient. 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, socceronly said:

Ah yes. that order. I just looked across the invoices and quickly counted the number of different items per order, doesn't show the quntity in the title.

This is such an awesome example demonstrating the amount of thought that goes on behind the scenes of things many people simply take for granted.

One point of confusion is that a local SG will order a number of scarves based on interest with people they meet regularly.  They know to order 120 because 90 of them are pre paid.   The risk is low. We don't get that luxury.

I think you need another variable in your equations though.   Let's call it H . H is an important factor.  Let's say you buy like 10K in merchandise and then your team goes to Honduras and shits the bed so bad people are still talking about it a decade later.   Let's call it the static inventory coefficient. 

 

 

 

 

 

Heh. I wish you had more larger orders like that. Would probably have made having the store a little more beneficial.

I think H only matters if your reorder point is a heck of a lot higher than then 6 or 8 scarves we may be talking about for a re-order point. That said, by having a weighted amount recalculated quarterly, the ROP is going to adjust automatically as a few quarters with 0 will greatly drive down that ROP, especially with the most recent quarters having a heavier weight.

I was trying to keep the calculation simple, since the actual amount being ordered from the manufacturer is relatively small from a purchase-order perspective. There's whole programs in college & university dedicated to purchasing, warehousing and inventory management, but most of the theory only applies at larger quantities, bulk-purchase-discounts, warehousing costs, delivery costs, and just-in-time stock replenishment. It's amazing how complicated it can be, and how many different certifications can be pursued by those seeking management positions in the supply chain industry.

It is very difficult to choose to take on the monetary liability that comes with choosing to order and stock merchandise. I've a handful of things for NSXI that I obtained for relatively high-cost, and even on resale I technically lose money on. Nothing in your order of magnitude of course, but I understand the pain. Because it doesn't get said enough, thank you @socceronly for all that you do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m Trevor. If you don’t know me I’m sorry we haven’t met. I organized the Mexico trip. The Cuba trip. The Belize trip. Plus buses to Montreal. Hamilton. Etc etc. 

I can assure you it wasn’t done as a money making endeavour. Jamie made 0$ on those trips. Any profit was used on the trip to pay for extra tours or exclusive events.  The trips themselves were built as low cost break even events to get voyageuers together  

Im always available to help plan trips for V’s games. 

Youve probably seen me helping Jamie with flyers or merchandise as well. 

Just sayin. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Rintaran said:

Heh. I wish you had more larger orders like that. Would probably have made having the store a little more beneficial.

I think H only matters if your reorder point is a heck of a lot higher than then 6 or 8 scarves we may be talking about for a re-order point. That said, by having a weighted amount recalculated quarterly, the ROP is going to adjust automatically as a few quarters with 0 will greatly drive down that ROP, especially with the most recent quarters having a heavier weight.

I was trying to keep the calculation simple, since the actual amount being ordered from the manufacturer is relatively small from a purchase-order perspective. There's whole programs in college & university dedicated to purchasing, warehousing and inventory management, but most of the theory only applies at larger quantities, bulk-purchase-discounts, warehousing costs, delivery costs, and just-in-time stock replenishment. It's amazing how complicated it can be, and how many different certifications can be pursued by those seeking management positions in the supply chain industry.

It is very difficult to choose to take on the monetary liability that comes with choosing to order and stock merchandise. I've a handful of things for NSXI that I obtained for relatively high-cost, and even on resale I technically lose money on. Nothing in your order of magnitude of course, but I understand the pain. Because it doesn't get said enough, thank you @socceronly for all that you do.

Well, the drop in sales / sales rate is multifactorial. JG isn't wrong, but it also isn't the only factor.  Things are of course cyclical, geographic, cultural and demographic.  Cultural and demographic are not the same in our coast to coast case. 

H definately matters when you use your credit card.... lol.  20 20 hindsight now, but it was an easy time to get carried away. 

There are multiple problems with putting your eggs into a single inventory basket, and scaling up the organization.  What I mean is let's say I forgo doing this and we move merchandise into say, FBA.   Whatever products you have picked better be things people want, and they better want them at a price point that is way higher than anything I have set.   Right now, if someone doesn't like something, I can just stop making it.  But that flexibility also limits what you can make.   So we have shirts, hoodies and simple things, they are low risk. 

Like JG is suggesting we need stuff that is not tired.  Everyone has scarves, lots of them, probably too many.  To "level up" apparel wise is a goal, but some catch 22s need to be broken first and it has to be done through a real legal entity.   

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

As far as the merchandising goes, I've given my opinion on this multiple times. But I'll give it again. It's straight up not appealing to the generation we should be targeting.

I'd love to get a merch team together. 

I'm not going to speak to the rest of this, but I would love to be a part of / take a lead in merch ideas / design.

Edit to add a link - https://www.whoareyadesigns.com/collections/all
 

Edited by Califax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So given that I've opened up a can of worms, what was the end result of this plan to help out local SGs from a few years ago? Did it just end up breaking even and that was that? I know I received a box of CanPL 2018 shirts for free that I haven't been able to do anything with, and will to end up donating.

Note that the third reply in was me indicating that you had my complete support in Calgary for this nationwide project. Contrast that with my responses earlier in this thread and it is a good example of how disenfranchised those of us involved at the local level have become. Not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to open up the dialogue here so that I can get motivated to care about this group again...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, merch revamp will be a go.  Here is what has to happen first.

  1. Incorporation & board set up
  2. Outline goals short term and long term
  3. Initiate at least one program that is national in scope to be relevant on some level broadly
  4. Communication fixed and avenues of commications improved. Email, social media, newsletter 
  5. Ecommerce overall design.  Not the site, but the overall setup.  Use FBA? Use multichannel? Continue with POD?
  6. Now you can create new things in the context of all the above being in place.

Herein are the catch 22s I am talking about. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, shermanator said:

So given that I've opened up a can of worms, what was the end result of this plan to help out local SGs from a few years ago? Did it just end up breaking even and that was that? I know I received a box of CanPL 2018 shirts for free that I haven't been able to do anything with, and will to end up donating.

Note that the third reply in was me indicating that you had my complete support in Calgary for this nationwide project. Contrast that with my responses earlier in this thread and it is a good example of how disenfranchised those of us involved at the local level have become. Not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to open up the dialogue here so that I can get motivated to care about this group again...

 

I've said in a few places, multiple times, though I don't know if you have access to them that the remaining $1300 or so will be used to promote the CanPL Supporters Groups closer to the start of the season.   Possibly via FB advertising of launch events or their pages in their respective markets.

If you have an idea that is better and can benifit everyone let me know. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, shermanator said:

So given that I've opened up a can of worms, what was the end result of this plan to help out local SGs from a few years ago? Did it just end up breaking even and that was that? I know I received a box of CanPL 2018 shirts for free that I haven't been able to do anything with, and will to end up donating.

Note that the third reply in was me indicating that you had my complete support in Calgary for this nationwide project. Contrast that with my responses earlier in this thread and it is a good example of how disenfranchised those of us involved at the local level have become. Not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to open up the dialogue here so that I can get motivated to care about this group again...

 

 

The question is what are you disenfranchised about exactly?   What within my control or ability to do could be different? I hope to see you in Calgary next year if all goes well. Thank goodness the show isn't in Saskatchewan or I might have to see Jeff. 

What is so different in Victoria? Saskatoon? Regina?  Ect....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, socceronly said:

Yes, merch revamp will be a go.  Here is what has to happen first.

  1. Incorporation & board set up
  2. Outline goals short term and long term
  3. Initiate at least one program that is national in scope to be relevant on some level broadly
  4. Communication fixed and avenues of commications improved. Email, social media, newsletter 
  5. Ecommerce overall design.  Not the site, but the overall setup.  Use FBA? Use multichannel? Continue with POD?
  6. Now you can create new things in the context of all the above being in place.

Herein are the catch 22s I am talking about. 

 

I understand 5, but why 1-4?

I think we should be establishing committees on sub topics, if only for ideas, so then when stuff is in place, we are ready to go.



 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Califax said:

I understand 5, but why 1-4?

I think we should be establishing committees on sub topics, if only for ideas, so then when stuff is in place, we are ready to go.



 

Because a merch revamp, depending on how you do it will not be cheap.

1. Because we need to be legal.  Have real bank accounts, sign agreements, trademark assets and if those voyageurs underpants you keep asking for cut someones testicles off you won't lose your house liability wise.

2. Strengthens the identity & legitimacy of 1.  

3. Legitimizes 2 and provides an avenue of identity for people to associate with everywhere.

4. 1-3  & 6 don't matter if you can't reach anyone.   Right now we can't reach anyone. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×