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What should we do with the Voyageurs forum?

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2018 at 1:08 PM, El Hombre said:

Fuck free speech.  Moderate the shit out of this.  You don't like it, then leave.

Amen.  A soccer discussion forum is not about the important things in our world. Its a setting of people who share a common interest.  If you join a club you always expect some sort of norms.  That has nothing to do with basic rights or free speech because you can choose to join the club or not and you can get kicked out as you should expect.  That doesnt mean we want group think.  

Why is it that I can tell right away from someone’s first post when its troll.  And yet when I follow the subsequent posts from the troll its seems like moderators cant clue in on it until maybe months later.  Or a hundred posts later.   Its always been like this here.  Good moderation means reading the post, underanding what the person said and (most importantly) recall what he said in his other posts.  Ifs its same thing everytime in his first 3-5 you should clue in on it.  

Secondly,  you gotta follow game and sport to a certain minimun degree.  I know thats a tough one to define.   I get that nobody is will be 100% on the facts and I will get the facts wrong and someone will correct me.   Thats good.  But you have to know enough to know when someone is trying to says that a chair is an elephant and keeps insisting that its an elephant.  I find it helps if you are sports fan in general.  

Edited by Free kick

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On 7/17/2018 at 9:32 AM, mpg_29 said:

The reality is Reddit has basically become "The Google" of forums. I'd imagine a lot of traditional forums have taken hits to traffic.

The CPL subreddit already has about 1.6K users and will likely become a popular catch-all for CPL and Canadian national team news similar to how the MLS subreddit has become huge source of news around MLS and US national teams.

It seems like most of the contention on here is surrounding the CPL topics. Because it seems like you can have "negative/critical" opinions about national team topics, like player/team performances, coaches changes, amount of friendlies scheduled..etc. However in the CPL topics I found there was a lot of tension around any dissenting opinions that veered from a positive/supportive outlook on the league. When I discussed the CPL I was interested into getting into the weeds of the economic viability of a professional soccer league in Canada...not as a "this will make our NT better" perspective. But I was in the minority with discussing that angle.

I think this his the biggest obstacle. Anecdotally speaking, I was a member on many forums throughout my life but now this is the only one I frequent - the rest on Reddit.

 

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@socceronlyYou need to win over the Quebec fans. I'm part of 3 Facebook groups and they should also be here.

Making this forum bilingual is complex but the potential payoff may be worth it

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49 minutes ago, Ansem said:

@socceronlyYou need to win over the Quebec fans. I'm part of 3 Facebook groups and they should also be here.

What groups are those?  French speaking CanSoc fans?

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57 minutes ago, zeelaw said:

What groups are those?  French speaking CanSoc fans?

2 groups of Montreal Impact (kop Montreal & 127 Montreal et amis) and a general group (SoccerFoot).

I've been giving the a CPL 101 crash course. It's crazy how isolated they are due to the lack of interest from Quebec Medias. It will take a team in Quebec City for them to get interested.

I wrote to Paul Beirne on what I saw on those forums and how CPL could sell better in Quebec.

This board being bilingual would attract a load of them. Posting here and the interface is easier than Facebook I think personally. I find it more convenient. 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, socceronly said:

Let's drop all CPL talk from this thread. 

We have a league, it's time to support it.

Rest is history

 

I don't mind the talk or discussion  but there is fine line between talk and proselytizing or shilling for the league.  

Too often, I feel that that line is crossed.   We don't get paid (at least I don't) to do promotion and publicity for an entity/club/private for profit organization.   It's up to the owners of that entity to do promotion and pay for promotion of their clubs and league.   None of us get up every morning to go to work or free.  

And when it comes to supporting it,  you should spend your money if you are entertained and satisfied with the entertainment. These are not charities.

Edited by Free kick

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I vote to move it to reddit. Easy to enforce and the money can go to other projects. 

I love this forum but hate it's accountability some times. 

I'd help mod on reddit. I'd cheer for Honduras before I modded here. 

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23 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I don't mind the talk or discussion  but there is fine line between talk and proselytizing or shilling for the league.  

Too often, I feel that that line is crossed.   We don't get paid (at least I don't) to do promotion and publicity for an entity/club/private for profit organization.   It's up to the owners of that entity to do promotion and pay for promotion of their clubs and league.   None of us get up every morning to go to work or free.  

And when it comes to supporting it,  you should spend your money if you are entertained and satisfied with the entertainment. These are not charities.

Absolutely. Things don't improve without critiques. 

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Well I'm almost done with this forum. Been around since 2006, I don't post much, but I find (found) it a great resource on Candain footy. Now every topic is back and forth babble...and I'm getting bored.

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On 7/18/2018 at 10:18 AM, Ansem said:

@socceronlyYou need to win over the Quebec fans. I'm part of 3 Facebook groups and they should also be here.

Making this forum bilingual is complex but the potential payoff may be worth it

There was a french section. Personne n'écrivait. Et, puis les quelques-un qui écrivaient ici se sont tannés. I don't think we're going to win Quebec fans on a Canadian Soccer board also. It's easier to interact on Impact-related forums with other people in French than go here since there are actually people who post in French there.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/18/2018 at 10:58 AM, Dub Narcotic said:

Absolutely. Things don't improve without critiques. 

There are critiques, and then there are 5-6 repetitive posts per page for 225 pages. These are not the same thing, particularly when there is a refusal to:

  1. Reflect on and learn anything from the responses to said posts;
  2. respect the opinions of others while claiming victim hood when the same is not returned; and,
  3. ascribe genuine motives to the investors Coming forward and/or holding public info sessions;

Not to mention:

  1. Challenging the integrity of the person  breaking the story ad nauseum - and others piled on in this regard - long after the genuine nature of the story was well established (and those who piled on should start a mea culpa thread and apologize to Duane); and, 
  2. responding with thinly veiled hostility to folks coming on to convey information shared at the various public information meetings.

I see from those who have quoted him and that he still does not get it. The CanPL thread is not the only time this has occurred. We see the same in the CFL thread and countless others over the years. 

Edited by Gordon

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2 hours ago, Gordon said:

There are critiques, and then there are 5-6 repetitive posts per page for 225 pages. These are not the same thing, particularly when there is a refusal to:

  1. Reflect on and learn anything from the responses to said posts;
  2. respect the opinions of others while claiming victim hood when the same is not returned; and,
  3. ascribe genuine motives to the investors Coming forward and/or holding public info sessions;

Not to mention:

  1. Challenging the integrity of the person  breaking the story ad nauseum - and others piled on in this regard - long after the genuine nature of the story was well established (and those who piled on should start a mea culpa thread and apologize to Duane); and, 
  2. responding with thinly veiled hostility to folks coming on to convey information shared at the various public information meetings.

I see from those who have quoted him and that he still does not get it. The CanPL thread is not the only time this has occurred. We see the same in the CFL thread and countless others over the years. 

+1 to the vast majority of this.

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I suggest a separate thread be started where we decide, via volunteers or nominations, who the moderators of the forum should be. 

Thereafter there should be a moderators only subforum or whatever where they discuss what rules or behaviour they will be looking out for, and what the expected penalties will be.  New rules get posted.  Short grace period to get used to them.  And then we start moving offside comments to the off topic area, sanctioning repeat offenders, deleting comments, closing threads and banning people. 

Lets clean this place up.  If we want this done lets just get it done.  What are we waiting for? 

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On 7/29/2018 at 2:13 PM, Gordon said:

So, was this all just another hand-wringing excercise?

No. 

Just not making any rash decisions.  

Another thing to consider is the Forum / V's.   So if you ban someone from the forum or even just suspend them, does that mean they can no longer buy tickets in the V's section?  As it is set up now that would be the case. 

That may be case for the forum to be arms length. 

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1 hour ago, socceronly said:

No. 

Just not making any rash decisions.  

Another thing to consider is the Forum / V's.   So if you ban someone from the forum or even just suspend them, does that mean they can no longer buy tickets in the V's section?  As it is set up now that would be the case. 

That may be case for the forum to be arms length. 

What do you need from us to push this forward? 

With regards to the forum/Vs issue. I personally don’t see anything wrong with “membership has its privileges”. Is it a loss if a small number can’t take advantage because they are not capable of interacting appropriayely with the rest of the community? 

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Posted (edited)

I'm going to go and say that I do not believe things are as bad as most make it out to be on here. Yeah, Robert is incredibly weird, BringBackTheBlizzard can be a persistent ass, and tg11 is probably the worst poster in terms of combining what he posts and how often he does it. It's what the ignore button is there for, and tg11 gave me a reason to use it for the first time .

I stepped away from the forum for a chunk of time, and it's unfortunate that some seem either fully gone or post a lot less often than they do. Oranje, Winnipeg Fury, Dino, Cheetah, etc. But my stepping away wasn't because of the forum. It was rather because there has been nothing going on related to the Men's national team for so long. No recent matches to analyse and debate, no roster selections to agonize over and no opposing fans joining to unite us all against *insert Central American country here*.

At the end of the day, this is a message board to discuss issues related to the National teams. When they aren't doing anything, there aren't a lot of things to discuss, which means the same petty arguments get rehashed over and over and over. I predict things will change with the League of Nations qualification starting soon. But message boards do have their limitations. Personally, I much prefer this format to what Reddit can offer.

However, we can always do better, so here is what I recommend:

1. On the different subs, assuming the Fury join the CPL (please please please please please), I would keep the CMNT, CWNT, Youth NTs (for both women and men), Voyageur Cup, CPL, MLS, Other. Keep it clean, and the "other" can include either international soccer or the latest Doug Ford decision.

2. A bit more moderation. Agreed that tg11 is... weird and its own problem, but people taking a thread completely off-track because they're just insulting each other back and forth or someone just repeating the same thing ad nauseum to reply to every message on a thread should not be accepted.

3. Decide what you want The Voyageurs to be (way bigger question than this). Is it a 24/7/365 supporters' group? Or an entity that exists as a collection point for Canadian soccer fans to gather when Canadian teams play? I have been treating it as the latter, though I know some would like it to become a bit more like a supporters' group for club soccer. If it's more of an inconsistent entity, then I think the message board serves its purpose, though I recognize this puts insane pressure on people like Jamie, both in terms of time and funding, to keep it alive.

Edited by Sébastien

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On 7/25/2018 at 12:20 AM, BrennanFan said:

I suggest a separate thread be started where we decide, via volunteers or nominations, who the moderators of the forum should be. 

Thereafter there should be a moderators only subforum or whatever where they discuss what rules or behaviour they will be looking out for, and what the expected penalties will be.  New rules get posted.  Short grace period to get used to them.  And then we start moving offside comments to the off topic area, sanctioning repeat offenders, deleting comments, closing threads and banning people. 

Lets clean this place up.  If we want this done lets just get it done.  What are we waiting for? 

By the by, there were rules at one point.  I should know, I posted them.

They're here.  Decent starting point.

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I'll be back on this when I am in Vancouver.  On the computer for a whole week there. 

Right now I am working as fast as possible on my Unabomber shack in the woods while I have time. 

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I liked this forum, it had interesting info, I'm not in any group so it's hard to stay in the loup. But over the past year it got pretty bad to the point there was quite a bit of mesogynistic posts that seemed to be accepted, it seemed pretty toxic so I left, haven't been back until now. 

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Posted (edited)

I've said it elsewhere and will say it here - this is for the most part a well informed, articulate message board (which some criticize as being elitist). I take far more from the collective wisdom knowledge of this board than I give. It really is the only board that I frequent - and to be fair I mainly stay on the MNT threads. There are the fools, the annoyances and the trolls, but see through that it and it's a great board. I'm okay with warning and then banning for racist, sexist, etc behaviour and for blatant trolling - but the the internet embraces the organic nature of thoughts and discussions. We can't fight it.

If you want to limit the trolls (and, perhaps, growth), charge a nominal fee. I'm always disappointed to see how few donors there are (although I'm not sure that's even a feature anymore, it should be) - especially among those that have thousands of posts. Allow viewing rights to all (some onlookers will see what's on offer and join), but posting rights to those who pay. Maybe $25 a year, nothing to dissuade most people. If there's a regular that really can't afford it, I'll pay for them.

But I caution against too many changes. This is a damn good board so let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Edited by BCM

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