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CONCACAF U-20 Championship (November 2018)

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14 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Opposite from Herdman’s mentality??? This guy was put there by Herdman !?! He was herdman’s  assistant coach from the women’s team.

Herdman needs to fire this guy ASAP and he shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a national team again! But watch this will get  swept under the rug and forgotten, I bet he’ll be on the bench vs St.Kitts for SMNT game.

What I meant was that Herdman is trying to install a culture of no excuses to his players and this guy doesn’t fit the bill

 

Edited by Thomas

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37 minutes ago, Thomas said:

What I meant was that Herdman is trying to install a culture of no excuses to his players and this guy doesn’t fit the bill

 

I agree but he’s Herdman’s guy ? So the question now is Mr.Perfect Herdman full of shit or did he make a mistake ? My view is , if Herdman doesn’t correct the mistake by firing him or he resigns, we all know Herdman is full shit and he’s selling snake oil. 

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5 hours ago, 1996 said:

So Canada is getting embarrassed by a country with a population the size of my old high school and the best you got is to blame the MLS really!

Blaming MLS or blaming those who keep relying on their academies? 🤔

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2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I agree but he’s Herdman’s guy ? So the question now is Mr.Perfect Herdman full of shit or did he make a mistake ? My view is , if Herdman doesn’t correct the mistake by firing him or he resigns, we all know Herdman is full shit and he’s selling snake oil. 

Neither.

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10 hours ago, Brazilero said:

Hiring Herdsman to the men’s team was suspect from the beginning. I didn’t like it then and I don’t like it now. Canada soccer has more problems than anyone is willing to admit and everyone at the top are lacking in vision and innovation and really should have been removed long ago. It is so obvious, but let’s blame it on the rain instead of where it squarely sits. Canada soccer board made a horrible decision in removing Zambrano, but that is just my opinion. I don’t think Herdsman was ever the answer. He is a great speaker and probably has good ideas, but my feeling is he would be better suited to administration / spokesperson for the CSA as he seems well suited for that. Selection is a huge problem. There are many u20 players that could’ve done a much better job, but we always seem to get that wrong because the wrong people are in charge. Top to bottom needs to change, but no one can do that except the people funding the program. Perhaps that is the way to get things done. Very sad to see this outcome.

I'm kinda with you on this part.

I didn't like the firing of Zambrano either, but I have changed my opinion on Herdman and believe the qualities you highlight are a strength and not a weakness. Had he not been paired with Biello I would say otherwise, but as it stands now, we can benefit from his motivational talents, while leaning on the ex-impact coach when need be. 

It's a unique tandem which I believe in, but time will tell as the games get tougher. So far so good though.

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9 hours ago, SpecialK said:

 

if you had - Mark Watson, Mauro Biello, Dwight Lodeweges or even Michael Findlay in there. We would have a different   Results I’m sure of it 

It's just not true. We had a very mediocre selection and it showed. 

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For me the jury is totally out on Herdman still, he has faced zero difficult opposition, and the first major challenge under his reign, this tournament, he has failed on.

All we have seen so far is that he is an expert spin doctor, he is disloyal (his backstabbing of Zambrano), and that he is afraid to take the team into a situation where his faults might be exposed, meaning no challenging friendlies. 

That can all be mitigated by results. The U-20 tournament, though not directly under his immediate control as coach, was his first opportunity. He failed. The current Nations League is the second, so far so good, vs. minnows. Better keep it up and see it through. Then the Gold Cup. Zambrano took us to quarters, playing well, and you could argue with real chances to have made it to semis. Anything less, I'd say, should be a valid argument for questioning Herdman's signing and looking for an alternative.

As I say: the jury is still out, and he has made no substantial argument in his favour yet. Not even getting double nationals to play for us, since Floro and Zambrano had already set a lot of that in motion.

 

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2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

All we have seen so far is that he is an expert spin doctor, he is disloyal (his backstabbing of Zambrano), and that he is afraid to take the team into a situation where his faults might be exposed, meaning no challenging friendlies. 

I'm not sure it's fair to say this.  It's not like previous managers were really setting up any challenging friendlies either.  That's a fault of the CSA as a whole, not Herdman.

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24 minutes ago, Club Linesman said:

Canada up 2-0 against Martinique in the 16th.  Bayiha scored the second. His pace is that of Davies, if his skill catches up he may be dangerous in the future.

Who scored the first?

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3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

For me the jury is totally out on Herdman still, he has faced zero difficult opposition, and the first major challenge under his reign, this tournament, he has failed on.

All we have seen so far is that he is an expert spin doctor, he is disloyal (his backstabbing of Zambrano), and that he is afraid to take the team into a situation where his faults might be exposed, meaning no challenging friendlies. 

That can all be mitigated by results. The U-20 tournament, though not directly under his immediate control as coach, was his first opportunity. He failed. The current Nations League is the second, so far so good, vs. minnows. Better keep it up and see it through. Then the Gold Cup. Zambrano took us to quarters, playing well, and you could argue with real chances to have made it to semis. Anything less, I'd say, should be a valid argument for questioning Herdman's signing and looking for an alternative.

As I say: the jury is still out, and he has made no substantial argument in his favour yet. Not even getting double nationals to play for us, since Floro and Zambrano had already set a lot of that in motion.

 

I do hope Herdman is successful of course, but I am not sure this characterization of events is fair.  From everything I have heard it seems more accurate to say Zambrano comitted Seppuku. 

This of course says nothing of the process that led to Herdman getting hired. 

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  • The team looked completely gassed. Unsurprising given the schedule. 
  • Looked uninspired and devoid of confidence. This squad couldn't recover from the Panama game. 
  • Decision making was so poor all round. 
  • CB's were a liability but our fullbacks did us know favors getting caught and leaving two relatively slow CBs exposed. 
  • While there are lots of factors involved here the coaching staff clearly had no idea how to pick up and motivate these players and the organization of the team was often found wanting. As bad a show for Olivieri as it was his players.  
  • Overall we had some highlights early on in the tournament (Bahiya, Baldisimo, Bair, all the B's bar Le Bourhis and Busti who weren't standout IMO) but the players didn't have the fitness levels to maintain the early spark. Okello is the Henry of the midfield. If he can mature mentally he has the tools to be a solid player. 

A 5 goal swing keeps us in second but tied on points with 3rd and 4th. A tournament to forget, hopefully not, hopefully one for these young players and the coaching staff to learn from. They were all caught wanting this week.  

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My take is that this was a team full of potential complementary pieces, but no difference-makers. And you need difference-makers to, well, make a difference. No Davies, Millar, David or Tabla to take over a game and beat the likes of Panama. No difference-makers to take control of a game and brush aside the minnows. Instead, just a lot of complementary pieces who will win some, will lose some, and will always be dependent on circumstances either way.  

Saw some potential in a number of players: Okello, Bair, Peruzza, Reid, Bayiha, Choiniere, Baldisimo, Dunn. One or two of them will likely emerge as quality starters for their club teams eventually.

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Thanks to CPL,  their partnership with U-Sports and other organizations, more talent will be found around this country.

The talent is there. 

Those MLS academies heavy rosters aren't getting the job done. Data doesn't lie. The CSA needs to bring other streams of talent into the fold and CPL certainly will facilitate that.

I don't buy that's the best we got. That's the best we got among those we know we have... big difference. 

I thought Mauro Biello was supposed to be the coach of the youth teams. I understand that he needs to be there for the senior game but we need better coaches than what we witnessed...

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I still can't get over the St. Kitts loss, so I put it in perspective. According to Wikipedia from the years 99-01 there was 2505 births in St. Kitts and Nevis. Assuming half of them were girls that leaves 1253. They had 20 players on their roster. So 1 out of approximately every 62 people born those years was on this team. Mind-boggiling how we can lose. My high school was bigger than that.

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3 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

I still can't get over the St. Kitts loss, so I put it in perspective. According to Wikipedia from the years 99-01 there was 2505 births in St. Kitts and Nevis. Assuming half of them were girls that leaves 1253. They had 20 players on their roster. So 1 out of approximately every 62 people born those years was on this team. Mind-boggiling how we can lose. My high school was bigger than that.

I salute you sir!  Very tenacious in the pursuit of your anger.  I would add that our number of births were over 300,000 per year at the same time frame just to add fuel to your rage.    

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3 hours ago, Ansem said:

Thanks to CPL,  their partnership with U-Sports and other organizations, more talent will be found around this country.

The talent is there. 

Those MLS academies heavy rosters aren't getting the job done. Data doesn't lie. The CSA needs to bring other streams of talent into the fold and CPL certainly will facilitate that.

I don't buy that's the best we got. That's the best we got among those we know we have... big difference. 

I thought Mauro Biello was supposed to be the coach of the youth teams. I understand that he needs to be there for the senior game but we need better coaches than what we witnessed...

There are better coaches one just won his 4th. CCAA national championship since becoming a head coach of Humber in 2013. In the US it’s coaches like this that for example that go on to coach their U17 and U20 teams and even Olympic teams and the US usually qualifies for these youth World Cups, a guy like Bruce Arena came through the college system, it’s time the CSA starts thinking a little bit outside the box when it comes to looking for coaches.

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59 minutes ago, 1996 said:

There are better coaches one just won his 4th. CCAA national championship since becoming a head coach of Humber in 2013. In the US it’s coaches like this that for example that go on to coach their U17 and U20 teams and even Olympic teams and the US usually qualifies for these youth World Cups, a guy like Bruce Arena came through the college system, it’s time the CSA starts thinking a little bit outside the box when it comes to looking for coaches.

Why can’t we have a high profile coach for our national teams. Also why is the media not asking these questions? I was listening to Soccer Today podcast and Rollins was saying, the CSA is hiding the managers. Well if they are hiding from questions, the media should blast the CSA  publicly. Why are is the media afraid of these assholes? 

 If Hockey Canada hired a college/university coach for their u18/U21 teams omg the media and fans would be losing their minds. But it’s normal for the CSA to hire  amateur coaches. 

There are high profile Canadian coaches out there. Why don’t they open the wallet and get these coaches in here.

Edited by SpecialK

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Just now, socceronly said:

I do hope Herdman is successful of course, but I am not sure this characterization of events is fair.  From everything I have heard it seems more accurate to say Zambrano comitted Seppuku. 

This of course says nothing of the process that led to Herdman getting hired. 

The Herdman deal was in the works for months, it seems, while Octavio was in the post, Herdman even set it up himself, plotting--and I think this is fair--to make a move with the CSA, putting them in a bind with him leaving the women''s team, and then executing.  He knew exactly what he was doing, and who he was dealing with (a new CSA board with no loyalty to the previous decision for CMNT manager).

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4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The Herdman deal was in the works for months, it seems, while Octavio was in the post, Herdman even set it up himself, plotting--and I think this is fair--to make a move with the CSA, putting them in a bind with him leaving the women''s team, and then executing.  He knew exactly what he was doing, and who he was dealing with (a new CSA board with no loyalty to the previous decision for CMNT manager).

At least he is displaying encouraging tactical skills...?

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The U20's embarrassed themselves, to say the least. Saint Kitts and Nevis has the same population as North Bay, Ontario. Mind boggling how can anyone defend these type of results when for the most part you're playing against Caribbean minnows.

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