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Vince193

Jonathan David

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I think we'd look great in a 4-4-2

---------------------x----------------------

x------------x----------x--------------x

Davies--Osorio--Arfield---Hoilett

-------------David--Larin----------------

That is a very talented front 6

Then, we still have a solid CM option (Piette), maybe even two depending on Hutchinson.

A solid striking option in Cavallini off the bench

And I think what will be a solid option in wide midfield or up front in Millar.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Snowcrash said:

I watched the game on stream.  They showed  a slow motion closeup of David on the header which you don't see in this video.  He could have met the cross head on and just try to power it past the keeper into the net but he flicked it towards the far post instead.

Yes, even that clip shows this and I’m not taking away from the decision.  Just saying that technically it wasn’t a great header.  It was good because it went in but that could have easily been saved. 

24 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

Many of the top Panama and Honduras players are moving on after the WC.  There’s an open window for the 4th best team in CONCACAF just as we are starting to get a huge group of talent hitting their primes.

Many of the guys weren’t that great to begin with!  But that fact makes you think, it’s obviously not so much about the talent but the preparation, intimidation, tactics and cohesiveness from matches played.  At the World Cup Panama had 6 players who would be the all time cap leader for Canada and a few more on pace to pass that.  Matches matter!! It’s common sense and we will still lose even with a good team if we can’t prepare properly.  That’s the danger we need to be aware of and if we don’t constantly put pressure on the CSA to have matches they won’t have them and you can kiss our golden generation goodbye.  This is exactly what happened in 2008 with a TON of talent but no matches!! Put this in perspective and to relate to this thread.. Panama had TWO guys on Gent II.  In other words these guys can’t even get a match on a team David is leading in scoring at 18.  We should be crying when we can’t beat these guys.

Its time to be professional and smack teams like Panama and Honduras around but people need to realize that will not happen playing minnows 4 times year so prepare for disappointment. On paper we could have put together better teams than Honduras 2010, 2014 and Panama 2018 but they beat us there fair and square because they WANTED it.

Edited by Keegan

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7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think we'd look great in a 4-4-2

---------------------x----------------------

x------------x----------x--------------x

Davies--Osorio--Arfield---Hoilett

-------------David--Larin----------------

That is a very talented front 6

Then, we still have a solid CM option (Piette), maybe even two depending on Hutchinson.

A solid striking option in Cavallini off the bench

And I think what will be a solid option in wide midfield or up front in Millar.

 

I like it but I NEED the bulldog in my XI just like I need Borjan in goal. I’d drop Osorio and play Piette Arfield centrally if we are going 4-4-2.

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-----------David------Cavs-------Larin--------

Davies------------Osorio-------------Hoilett

-----------------Arfield--------Piette-----------

-------------------Henry------James-----------

------------------------Borjan-----------------------

The ol' 2-2-3-3...We'll beat USVI 21-3 with this lineup.

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29 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

-----------David------Cavs-------Larin--------

Davies------------Osorio-------------Hoilett

-----------------Arfield--------Piette-----------

-------------------Henry------James-----------

------------------------Borjan-----------------------

The ol' 2-2-3-3...We'll beat USVI 21-3 with this lineup.

How many of them are penalties for USVI?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Obinna said:

With Larin I think it's less about him disappearing and more about his game relying on service. He's not going to drift out wide and take guys on. That's just not what he's about. He's about poaching goals and I am fine with that. Sure, i'd like his game to round out, but the fact we have a 23 year old scoring and getting regular minutes at Besiktas is enough to leave me satisfied, personally.  

I haven't watched any complete games of David so can't say how much he is able to do on his own but on a lot of his goals he is getting really good service like the cross on this goal. On the positive side he has scored enough times now that it seems like it is not a fluke and he is a good finisher. However, Larin was also getting good service with Orlando and struggled with the poorer service on the national team. One would hope with the improvement in our midfield talent recently that the lack of service will be a thing of the past but if it is not it is possible that even if David becomes a top striker in Europe he could struggle with the lack of service with the national team. I almost can't remember the last time a national team goal came from a run down the wing with a perfect cross to the striker like in this most recent goal.

Edited by Grizzly

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2 hours ago, Grizzly said:

I haven't watched any complete games of David so can't say how much he is able to do on his own but on a lot of his goals he is getting really good service like the cross on this goal. On the positive side he has scored enough times now that it seems like it is not a fluke and he is a good finisher. However, Larin was also getting good service with Orlando and struggled with the poorer service on the national team. One would hope with the improvement in our midfield talent recently that the lack of service will be a thing of the past but if it is not it is possible that even if David becomes a top striker in Europe he could struggle with the lack of service in MLS. I almost can't remember the last time a national team goal came from a run down the wing with a perfect cross to the striker like in this most recent goal.

Yeah I have also seen only bits and pieces of David, but I see things in a similar way so far. I see a player who relies on service. He is much more of a larin than a Hoilett. He almost reminds me of a hybrid between Larin and Simeon Jackson. Fortunately, Davies is coming along at the same time as David and I think Liam Millar will also develop into a reliable player for us. Both of them seem to be able to create something out of nothing, especially Davies. If we get Tabla even better.

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14 hours ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

This might be the unfashionable opinion, but I still think Larin has the highest ceiling/potential. Being strong and 6'2 can be an added benefit, in addition to great finishing.

Just because a person is taller, doesn’t mean they are better. I’m sorry, but this is a typical idiotic opinion that has plagued are youth systems for years

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David just turned 18 this year. For a European club to show the type of confidence they have at such an early stage of his development is impressive. He’s been put into a role that enables the club to get him onto the field. Johnny has the ability to play up front, in an attacking CM position and what we’ve seen so far which is seemingly in between the two positions. As he grows and develops he will get more minutes as he can play north/south but also east/west. 

Canada’s biggest failure in development is finding a CM that can control a game. 

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2 hours ago, canta15 said:

Just because a person is taller, doesn’t mean they are better. I’m sorry, but this is a typical idiotic opinion that has plagued are youth systems for years

Our youth teams are chosen based on a track meet or physical abilities. The notion is the CSA or OSA coaches will coach them up. It’s disheartening. 

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3 hours ago, canta15 said:

Just because a person is taller, doesn’t mean they are better. I’m sorry, but this is a typical idiotic opinion that has plagued are youth systems for years

Why dont you actually read his post properly before jumping down his throat? Where does he say being taller makes you better?😕

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4 hours ago, canta15 said:

Just because a person is taller, doesn’t mean they are better. I’m sorry, but this is a typical idiotic opinion that has plagued are youth systems for years

The irony here is too good.  He never said it meant they are better, he said he has the highest ceiling/potential.  Of course height is a variable worth considering when talking about potential.. he’s not saying it means he’s better.  Say David and Larin turn out to have the exact same skills across the board, same speed etc. Who would you rather have the 5’9 guy or the 6’2 guy? I think that’s his point and it’s valid.

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It is a valid way of looking at things and I understand what Bertuzzi is saying, but I don't think it's necessarily true. Being smaller does have advantages in soccer e.g. agility, quickness, and lower center of gravity. For example, there are certain things Messi can do that Ronaldo can't because he is smaller (and vice versa, of course). I'm not sure who has a higher ceiling, but from a team building stand point having a variety of strikers is optimal.

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2 minutes ago, El Diego said:

It is a valid way of looking at things and I understand what Bertuzzi is saying, but I don't think it's necessarily true. Being smaller does have advantages in soccer e.g. agility, quickness, and lower center of gravity. For example, there are certain things Messi can do that Ronaldo can't because he is smaller (and vice versa, of course). I'm not sure who has a higher ceiling, but from a team building stand point having a variety of strikers is optimal.

I get what you’re saying but on the flip side you can say that if given the choice most people would rather have Ronaldo’s physique in a player than Messi’s.  Ronaldo is a monster in the box.. Messi not so much.  

I think you’re spot on with your variety comment because each match of football is different.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I get what you’re saying but on the flip side you can say that if given the choice most people would rather have Ronaldo’s physique in a player than Messi’s.  Ronaldo is a monster in the box.. Messi not so much.  

I think you’re spot on with your variety comment because each match of football is different.

 

 

I think that's fair to say. I really shouldn't use Messi and Ronaldo as examples though, they're quite unique.

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21 hours ago, Obinna said:

With Larin I think it's less about him disappearing and more about his game relying on service. He's not going to drift out wide and take guys on. That's just not what he's about. He's about poaching goals and I am fine with that. Sure, i'd like his game to round out, but the fact we have a 23 year old scoring and getting regular minutes at Besiktas is enough to leave me satisfied, personally.  

He has yet to score against any stiff competition to be honest, or had any impact goals. 

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5 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

I think of the Toronto FC pairing of Seba and Altidore as extreme and in some ways ideal.

If your going to play with 2 strikers it’s not bad for balance to have a larger target man and smaller quicker playmaking type

My thoughs exactly, I personally think any 2 striker conbo that we could potentially put forward would be ineffective, since all of Larin, Cavallini, and David lean towards the target forward type.... we need a Seba type attacking midfielder who can play as a forward (then again... who doesnt?), and Dero was our man.

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Posted (edited)

I apologize for my poorly phrased point, El Diego pretty much said what I tried to voice my opinion on. My point still stand that in our youth systems coaches often infer that if a player was taller he would have a higher ceiling and choose the taller player solely on this purpose. If that player was taller perhaps he would be reducing his skills in other areas of the pitch.

It is a touchy subject I have a strong opinion on and came out the wrong way. I realize he was not stating that taller were players were superior and should have read it more closely

Edited by canta15

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17 hours ago, Keegan said:

The irony here is too good.  He never said it meant they are better, he said he has the highest ceiling/potential.  Of course height is a variable worth considering when talking about potential.. he’s not saying it means he’s better.  Say David and Larin turn out to have the exact same skills across the board, same speed etc. Who would you rather have the 5’9 guy or the 6’2 guy? I think that’s his point and it’s valid.

Because historically the greatest strikers have been taller?

Last I looked the ball's at your feet and you use your head to think.

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17 hours ago, Keegan said:

I get what you’re saying but on the flip side you can say that if given the choice most people would rather have Ronaldo’s physique in a player than Messi’s.  Ronaldo is a monster in the box.. Messi not so much.  

I think you’re spot on with your variety comment because each match of football is different.

 

 

Wow do you ever not watch either. Messi scores way more in close apart from free kicks and Ronaldo, apart from recent dry spells, had the classic long shot as his main resource. 

Having watched both live for a decade, excuse me for paying attention. 

 

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I definitely wasn't implying Larin was/is/will be better than David solely because of his size. Go watch some of his highlight videos, Larin can be a great finisher; 47 goals in 93 league appearances for Orlando City and Besiktas is pretty impressive.

David on the other hand also seems like a great scorer, and his movement to find space seems better than Larin's. As you'd expect, he looks quicker than Larin too.

But can't height and strength be considered when comparing the two without implying Larin is less skilled? Someone was mentioning Larin's holdup play was improving at Besiktas, something David would have a harder time doing against tall, physically stronger CDMs and CBs. Also 6'2 is usually an advantage over 5'9 for winning/scoring headers.

Anyway, the obvious answer is to play them together! :lol:

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2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Wow do you ever not watch either. Messi scores way more in close apart from free kicks and Ronaldo, apart from recent dry spells, had the classic long shot as his main resource. 

Having watched both live for a decade, excuse me for paying attention. 

 

I guess I wasn’t clear enough.. I mean receiving service in the box, not with the ball at their feet.  Of course Messi scores more in tight and Ronaldo from range.  Ronaldo is a freak in the air in the box, even if he’s being marked out of a game in open play he can still pop up at any time and score a huge goal, as he has many times. 

I’m a Messi guy personally, but if someone told you he could get Ronaldo’s height and aerial ability and not lose a step you’d be an idiot to say no. 

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Posted (edited)

I think it's fair to ask for more from Larin...like better finishing.  With Cristiano and Messi doesn't make so much sense.

Just so you don't think I'm cherry picking. ..look at Messi s last official goal: control a high ball in the box with the CB on you, fend off another with your body, take the shot into the corner. I won't even bother with the link, vs Alavés 3rd goal. Guy looks like he's 6 feet tall because the technique is superior. 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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