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Herdman new head coach

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5 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

https://twitter.com/CanadaSocerEN/status/1052341032061349888

Thank you sir, long ways to go but keep it, love the real pride of this squad putting on the shirt!

I was against his appointment at the time tbh, time will tell how it all works out, with the guys he has brought on board and that video recognising the supporters it makes it very hard for me not to like the guy! 

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5 minutes ago, gator said:

I was against his appointment at the time tbh, time will tell how it all works out, with the guys he has brought on board and that video recognising the supporters it makes it very hard for me not to like the guy! 

Exactly, well said and I am on the same page as you. There will be of course some bumps along the road, but as of right now, the complaints should be very minimal, time will tell.

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This might be a trigger for the ones who didn't want Herdman because he managed only women's teams:

Herdman says the experiences of the last quadrennial leading up to the Rio 2016 Olympics helped shape his approach to the four-year stretch leading up to the next World Cup. That includes showing footage from the women's team during video sessions with the men.

"I think it was positive," he said. "I mean, some guys maybe had the wall up a bit, like 'hey, what are you doing showing us [this]?' But I think it's been positive.

"What they're seeing is a level of tactical IQ and a level of tactical excellence in big moments in front of 60,000 people in big games where you can actually see there's a level of team cohesion here, an attacking team cohesion that these guys have been yearning for, from what I can see."

 

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/canada-mens-soccer-more-than-davies-1.4874265

 

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2 hours ago, red card said:

This might be a trigger for the ones who didn't want Herdman because he managed only women's teams:

Herdman says the experiences of the last quadrennial leading up to the Rio 2016 Olympics helped shape his approach to the four-year stretch leading up to the next World CupThat includes showing footage from the women's team during video sessions with the men.

"I think it was positive," he said. "I mean, some guys maybe had the wall up a bit, like 'hey, what are you doing showing us [this]?' But I think it's been positive.

"What they're seeing is a level of tactical IQ and a level of tactical excellence in big moments in front of 60,000 people in big games where you can actually see there's a level of team cohesion here, an attacking team cohesion that these guys have been yearning for, from what I can see."

 

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/canada-mens-soccer-more-than-davies-1.4874265

 

Is he complementing his own tactical ability or the women’s team 

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1 hour ago, SkuseisLoose said:

Is he complementing his own tactical ability or the women’s team 

I would think he is showing them what he can do and what he expects as a coach, you know, what he is paid to do. ;)

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Maybe some one needs to tell John he already has the job. Interviews are done! Less telling; more showing! Stop patting yourself on the back and let the results prove your worth.

I believe in intelligent self-promotion but he has to be careful. He will become a clownish cliche of himself if he doesn't smarten up. He will lose the respect of players, media and hardcore fans !

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8 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

Maybe some one needs to tell John he already has the job. Interviews are done! Less telling; more showing! Stop patting yourself on the back and let the results prove your worth.

I believe in intelligent self-promotion but he has to be careful. He will become a clownish cliche of himself if he doesn't smarten up. He will lose the respect of players, media and hardcore fans !

I get where you are coming from, and there is some truth in there, but I suspect Herdman's full court PR press is just getting started - and with good reason.  We are as close to a cult of CMNT soccer nerds as this country gets, so I don't think we are the right yardstick to measure Herdman's level of self promotion and/or media saturation.  We follow every burp and twitch of CMNT news, so we see everything he does.  But that generally isn't the case with the broader public.  Right now, I suspect he is still trying to get as many eyes and column inches on the CMNT as possible, and for better or worse the reality is that he is one of the more recognizable faces associated with the team.  I don't expect the charm offensive to end anytime soon.

Edited by dyslexic nam

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Maybe it's the Canadian in me but I prefer a reserved, cautious approach. All the back-patting and self-promotion seems a little tacky, especially when he's yet to prove anything. How about beat a real team, with real stakes, in a hostile venue; then you can talk up all the "tactical intelligence" and "tactical periodization" you want.

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15 hours ago, The Beaver said:

Maybe some one needs to tell John he already has the job. Interviews are done! Less telling; more showing! Stop patting yourself on the back and let the results prove your worth.

It's almost like you have no idea what a coach does.

Coaches have been using "film" to coach players and staff for decades now. They show they players how they performed, how other players performed and highlight the things they should be doing in the future.

This has to be the dumbest criticism of a coach I have yet seen on this board.

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Just now, ted said:

It's almost like you have no idea what a coach does.

Coaches have been using "film" to coach players and staff for decades now. They show they players how they performed, how other players performed and highlight the things they should be doing in the future.

This has to be the dumbest criticism of a coach I have yet seen on this board.

The Beaver criticism is fair IMHO.

Yes, using films is an excellent tool for coaches but it's using films of his "exploits" that is the point of the critics.

If you want to show the players a "level of tactical IQ and excellence" in pressure situations, you could find many examples outside the WNT.

I've read and heard JH speaks and I have to agree with posters who are annoyed with the self promotion.

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Wait, I just had an idea. Lots of people on this board criticise Herdman for talking before he's gotten meaningful results. By that logic shouldn't those critics wait until he has bad results before they criticise?

John Herdman CMNT record

3 games, 3 wins, 14 goals for, 0 goals against

Say what you will about the competition in those games, but I don't think there is room in there to say we've had bad results yet.

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So far he is ticking all the boxes, winning his games, getting fence sitters to commit (with help from hosting the WC), cap tieing youngsters against minnows.  He also talked about a ground up revamping of how we do things in canada, hopefully somthing is in the works there.  But its a modern age, e-mails, skype, periodization, visualization, mental acuity, all these nice buzz words are part of his tool box and that irritates us old fogies like a bowl of cold soup.  To me he still does seem like a greasy car salesman trying to hard sell the undercoating, but the program needs someone to drum up interest and excitement.   The days of the stoic manager are over, the tech/media savvy generation is here. 

The program was on an upswing before he got there, and lots of the excitement has nothing to do with him (Davies, David, Millar, CPL, WC etc) but he is doing a good job and hopefully it will continue as the opponents get tougher in the nations league, on to the gold cup and WCQ.  

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20 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

...

But right now it is like we are looking for reasons to be critical.

We're not?  Must have missed that email...

As far as I'm concerned part of his job is getting his face into the media, one way or another so long as it keeps the MNT in the public eye.  The more positive the better of course.

Doesn't have anything else to draw from other than his WNT experience and while I think there isn't a lot which can translate between the two in any meaningful way it's what he's got so go ahead and give it a try.  Positive tenure with The Ladies, getting some positive vibe into the MNT has to helpful. 

Just don't get too silly, Gaffer.

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2 hours ago, ted said:

Coaches have been using "film" to coach players and staff for decades now. They show they players how they performed, how other players performed and highlight the things they should be doing in the future.

Yeah, but they weren't boys :)

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16 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

He's unproven at this level and his appointment was an administrative decision and not a football decision. 

All we can do is hope. But. If he does not deliver at the Gold Cup, with the team he has, he should be fired.

Sorry I'm not buying this.  It's not like all these guys are proven commodities playing full time for big clubs, many are still kids, who have potential, who are in the systems of big clubs, big difference. 

I think it would surprise people to find out how many kids we had trialling for fairly big clubs, ten or more years ago.  When I used to keep the MOACA, I still had all the names of people who fell by the wayside.  I was never worried when people said they're wouldn't be enough talent to stock a Canadian league.  Just saying, let's not get all mesmerized by the big team names.

I think we had it wrong earlier about V's paranoia, I think it's more about some who have a real need to say I told you so.  Herdman will never get a break from them.

As for his "face time" he is as close to a pseudo "Canadian" soccer face we have right now.  Davies may be that guy someday, but we are truly deluding ourselves if we think that Joe Canadian Sixpack, and not us hard core mental cases, knows any of our CMNT.

Edited by Joe MacCarthy

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3 hours ago, ted said:

It's almost like you have no idea what a coach does.

Coaches have been using "film" to coach players and staff for decades now. They show they players how they performed, how other players performed and highlight the things they should be doing in the future.

This has to be the dumbest criticism of a coach I have yet seen on this board.

Nope, it's almost like you cannot even read! Read my post again. At no point do I take issue with his use of film or his efforts to promote the team and players. You are being disingenuous here. My criticism is aimed at John's patting of his own back. Can't quite fathom how you've misread my post 

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20 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I get where you are coming from, and there is some truth in there, but I suspect Herdman's full court PR press is just getting started - and with good reason.  We are as close to a cult of CMNT soccer nerds as this country gets, so I don't think we are the right yardstick to measure Herdman's level of self promotion and/or media saturation.  We follow every burp and twitch of CMNT news, so we see everything he does.  But that generally isn't the case with the broader public.  Right now, I suspect he is still trying to get as many eyes and column inches on the CMNT as possible, and for better or worse the reality is that he is one of the more recognizable faces associated with the team.  I don't expect the charm offensive to end anytime soon.

Fair enough, and I can appreciate such a tactic, in so much as it supports the larger strategies you've outlined here.  But he has to be careful about all these little moments where he suggests he is our soccer messiah.  He needs to do good work and let us and the media call him The Jesus of Canadian Soccer.  Again, I am not entirely against self-promotion, but it can derail one's credibility and authority if it is not used judiciously. 

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2 hours ago, The Beaver said:

Can't quite fathom how you've misread my post 

We where discussing his use of video of the Women he coached and that was being characterized as self-aggrandizement.

WTF were you talking about if not that?!?

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