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Ottawa CPL Club

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4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Last season at TFC it was that, and it is that for 80% of MLS teams. I agree with that. 

The entertainment level has a lot to do with narrative. Just this morning I was flipping between Fulham-Man Utd and Getafe-Celta, and frankly, the latter was better quality football, the decision making, quality of play, passingg, positionally. EPL still has high level games where the ball just flies over players heads and goes to the opposition, it is sloppy and only saved because there are quality players out there, United has way better players than Celta of course. 

But the EPL narrative is stronger, so it is taken as "better", as good quality football. 

If MLS just had one thing it  currently does not I'd like it better: defensive pressure on the ball, from up high to the back line. What makes it hard is that the players make poor decisions even when they have a lot of time to decide, and that is unpardonable. 

I totally agree with the EPL thing, no arguments there.

When it comes to the bolded, my take on MLS is the young guys (even some veterans) don't take risks, chances...they're way too scared if they hold onto the ball for more than 4 seconds. Obviously this doesn't apply to DPs and seasoned foreigners.

I think it's a league wide thing where mistakes are punished by restricting their game time. Davies was an exception where his explosive athleticism and hype gave him a creative license to fail, and he did numerous times with runs that went no where and runs where the opposition stopped him dead in his track. However, every other young Canadian/American doesn't have the luxury to do that. This is where the CPL must be different. Creativity, adventure and confidence needs to be pushed and emphasized throughout the league which is no easy task, but if the league can push that culture successfully to the member clubs, the CPL will be producing a lot more quality, even world class players than MLS which will result in us leaving the USMNT in the dust.

Edited by Macksam

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Back to the Fury for a minute: I just put down cash for another ticket in the Supporters' Section this year now that they're moving it out from behind the goal and in the field seats next to Gate 1. My ticket Rep and I got into a discussion about CPL and he said that they harboured no ill will towards the CPL and that they often came to the Fury for advice about building clubs. He said that they never said never to joining CPL, they just think it's prudent to wait and see at this point. Take it with a grain of salt as it's coming from a club mouthpiece, but I think they're waiting to see what the level of play actually is once the Fury play CPL clubs in the Voyageurs Cup and have a direct comparison to the current build of the Club.

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2 hours ago, Initial B said:

Back to the Fury for a minute: I just put down cash for another ticket in the Supporters' Section this year now that they're moving it out from behind the goal and in the field seats next to Gate 1. My ticket Rep and I got into a discussion about CPL and he said that they harboured no ill will towards the CPL and that they often came to the Fury for advice about building clubs. He said that they never said never to joining CPL, they just think it's prudent to wait and see at this point. Take it with a grain of salt as it's coming from a club mouthpiece, but I think they're waiting to see what the level of play actually is once the Fury play CPL clubs in the Voyageurs Cup and have a direct comparison to the current build of the Club.

It really sits poorly with me that they’ll ‘wait and see’ whether our new little CPL is good enough for them. I’d have loved to have the Fury in the CPL, but now I’d honestly rather they don’t join. They have no faith in the CPL, and I’d rather have another Ottawa based ownership group come in and create an Ottawa CPL club.

I’ve said this before, but I think they’ve made a big mistake rejecting us, and I frankly don’t want them any more. I hope the Fury have fun in the ignominy of a US minor league once the CPL really starts thriving, and I hope that their owners come to realize that their own lack of ambition and vision has consigned their club to irrelevance. I want another Ottawa club to arise. I want that club to become the big club in Ottawa. I want that club to play in the CPL, and I want the Fury ownership to pine for the days when they still had a chance at mattering. 

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6 hours ago, Ams1984 said:

It really sits poorly with me that they’ll ‘wait and see’ whether our new little CPL is good enough for them. I’d have loved to have the Fury in the CPL, but now I’d honestly rather they don’t join. They have no faith in the CPL, and I’d rather have another Ottawa based ownership group come in and create an Ottawa CPL club.

I’ve said this before, but I think they’ve made a big mistake rejecting us, and I frankly don’t want them any more. I hope the Fury have fun in the ignominy of a US minor league once the CPL really starts thriving, and I hope that their owners come to realize that their own lack of ambition and vision has consigned their club to irrelevance. I want another Ottawa club to arise. I want that club to become the big club in Ottawa. I want that club to play in the CPL, and I want the Fury ownership to pine for the days when they still had a chance at mattering. 

Head vs heart.  As a longtime Canadian soccer supporter, I'm not happy.  As a business person, I continue to assert that the decision they made for this season was not unreasonable.  Time will tell...

Edited by JamboAl

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7 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Head vs heart.  As a longtime Canadian soccer supporter, I'm not happy.  As a business person, I continue to assert that the decision they made for this season was not unreasonable.  Time will tell...

I agree 100% with you but I still think that they handled their decision poorly publicly.

Wearing my business hat from the CPL perspective, "we'll wait and see" is unacceptable and the league is justifiedtonsee if other groups are interested in Ottawa and look at their business case. 

Same hat, from Fury perspective, I can't disagree with the cautious approach but I would have handled the decision way differently.

1-You blindside no one

2-You work with CPL and CSA on a common message making everyone look good. 

3-You give some type of timetable to join and clear conditions allowing the league to definately agree or wish you good luck.

As a soccer fan, I'm mad

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9 hours ago, Ams1984 said:

It really sits poorly with me that they’ll ‘wait and see’ whether our new little CPL is good enough for them. I’d have loved to have the Fury in the CPL, but now I’d honestly rather they don’t join. They have no faith in the CPL, and I’d rather have another Ottawa based ownership group come in and create an Ottawa CPL club.

I’ve said this before, but I think they’ve made a big mistake rejecting us, and I frankly don’t want them any more. I hope the Fury have fun in the ignominy of a US minor league once the CPL really starts thriving, and I hope that their owners come to realize that their own lack of ambition and vision has consigned their club to irrelevance. I want another Ottawa club to arise. I want that club to become the big club in Ottawa. I want that club to play in the CPL, and I want the Fury ownership to pine for the days when they still had a chance at mattering. 

I don't think its unreasonable for the CPL to have to validate themselves to the Fury in order to gain their trust. A professional soccer league has failed before in Canada and there is no guarantee that the CPL will succeed (although I 100% agree it has a way better chance this time around). Can we not blame the Fury for holding out joining for another year to see if the CPL is financially viable? Keep in mind the Fury were supporting canadian soccer for half a decade before the CPL rolled around. Their owners HAVE ambition, and had it way before many of the CPL owners had it. Moreover, wouldn't it be smart to keep at least one non MLS team in a different league for the time being? Imagine if the CPL fails (it won't in the first year) and the Fury folded along with the other CPL clubs. Canada would look pretty stupid and Fury would have the right to feel pretty bitter about only having 3 pro teams to represent the country. Maybe save our sour grapes for at least another year before we decide they are arrogant and unambitious for not joining the league?

Edited by Senorpopps

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38 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

I don't think its unreasonable for the CPL to have to validate themselves to the Fury in order to gain their trust. A professional soccer league has failed before in Canada and there is no guarantee that the CPL will succeed (although I 100% agree it has a way better chance this time around). Can we not blame the Fury for holding out joining for another year to see if the CPL is financially viable? Keep in mind the Fury were supporting canadian soccer for half a decade before the CPL rolled around. Their owners HAVE ambition, and had it way before many of the CPL owners had it. Moreover, wouldn't it be smart to keep at least one non MLS team in a different league for the time being? Imagine if the CPL fails (it won't in the first year) and the Fury folded along with the other CPL clubs. Canada would look pretty stupid and Fury would have the right to feel pretty bitter about only having 3 pro teams to represent the country. Maybe save our sour grapes for at least another year before we decide they are arrogant and unambitious for not joining the league?

They fucked up PR-wise. That's what angered people the most. If they hadn't done that, the overwhelming majority would have been understanding.

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4 hours ago, Senorpopps said:

I don't think its unreasonable for the CPL to have to validate themselves to the Fury in order to gain their trust. A professional soccer league has failed before in Canada and there is no guarantee that the CPL will succeed (although I 100% agree it has a way better chance this time around). Can we not blame the Fury for holding out joining for another year to see if the CPL is financially viable? Keep in mind the Fury were supporting canadian soccer for half a decade before the CPL rolled around. Their owners HAVE ambition, and had it way before many of the CPL owners had it. Moreover, wouldn't it be smart to keep at least one non MLS team in a different league for the time being? Imagine if the CPL fails (it won't in the first year) and the Fury folded along with the other CPL clubs. Canada would look pretty stupid and Fury would have the right to feel pretty bitter about only having 3 pro teams to represent the country. Maybe save our sour grapes for at least another year before we decide they are arrogant and unambitious for not joining the league?

Lots of hypotheticals in there. The fact is that the Fury have acted poorly, and as a poster above said, they could’ve sculpted the message very differently. That being said, I am a business person, and I remember when a bank I thought I had a good relationship with said (paraphrasing) ‘now that your father is dead, we’re going to wait and see whether we want to deepen our relationship with you’. I no longer have accounts with that bank. I get that the bank didn’t owe me anything, I get that it may have been prudent or whatever to be less enthusiastic about me than my father, but I don’t want to do business with people who don’t believe in me or what I’m doing. 

From a fan’s perspective, I’m over the Fury, they only exist on the border of irrelevance now, merely kept buoyant in my thoughts by my disdain for them, 

From a business man’s perspective, I think that the Fury have alienated most Canadian fans, and have probably burned the CPL bridge. Even if cooler heads prevail and the league were to decide to welcome the Fury after this nonsense, many fans -like me- wouldn’t be happy about it, 

From a human perspective, something I’m invested in was rejected by the Fury, in a shitty way. You don’t tell someone (or a group of people) that you might later wish to have a relationship with, that you’ll ‘wait and see’ if they can ‘prove themselves’. Not if you want to ever have a decent relationship with them. 

I disagree with what the Fury did, but I’m especially angry about their dishonesty and their arrogance. (it was salary cap concerns that precluded them from joining the CPL, then they dump half their roster... wtf?) then the whole sanctioning thing? They need special treatment or else their being treated unfairly? 

I could go on, but I think you get what I’m saying. 

 

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I suspect the Fury are barely even on the radar screen for most soccer people who don't live in Ottawa and most will also still be largely oblivious where CanPL is concerned even in some of the larger cities that have a team where it isn't treated as a big news story unlike in smaller markets like Halifax.

For a lot of soccer people you follow the stuff you particpate in and whatever overseas league is applicable in ancestry terms and view the CSA, the CMNT and Canadian domestic pro soccer in general as a joke and regard anyone who takes an interest in it as a weirdo. The Voyageurs forum being viewed as ground zero on that last bit.

MLS was able to disrupt that mentality a bit in the three major markets, and it would be nice to think CanPL can as well. Time will tell.

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1 hour ago, matty said:

just curious, if the cpl is a trash league or bombs, ya guys think ofc's reputation would be restored with canadian fans?

Not necessarily.  One of the strong arguments for Fury joining up for season 1 was that it would really help the league to have a strong pre-existing club throw its weight behind it.  Not only would the endorsement carry weight, it would simply add another strong club into the mix for the sake of stability.  

CPL should be able to stand on its own without them, but it didn't help that the Fury publicly expressed doubt about the league and downplayed the level of play expected. If CPL crashes and burns, it could be argued that the Fury's decision (and way it was communicated) contributed to that outcome - rather than being validated by it.

Then again, I am definitely on one side of the CPL vs Fury issue.

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I continue to disagree that this was a good business decision. Short term maybe, but long term? I can't see it.

The Fury aren't going anywhere in USL - I've said it before, just look at the Fury's attendance. Even if they stopped giving away free tickets to youth teams, they still dropped average attendance by close to 1,000 people after 3 seasons with no growth year on year, including a year where they almost won the league they were in. So they stay in USL and see little to no improvement outside of whatever they *might* get from the league.

Meanwhile there's the CPL. It is high risk, yes, but it also offers potential that the USL doesn't. Again, because no one cares about Birmingham (ah yes, the legendary rivalry we have with Alabama?), Charleston (where?), Loudoun (what?), Saint Louis (is that the same as St. Louis, where the Blues play? Why is Saint spelled out in one but not the other?), Bethlehem (I mean it's great that USL has a team in Palestine, but I'm not sure that makes sense geographically), Memphis 901 FC (I will admit that I'm really impressed that the USL includes a more than 1,000 year old Egyptian team), Swope Park (I'm sorry, what's a Swope?), and, of course, NYRB-II and Atlanta-II. When I look at the Fury schedule I see 0 games that rouse any interest in me. 

At the end of the day there were/are essentially 4 possibilities - Fury join or don't and the CPL thrives or fails. By not joining the Fury choose the low-risk, low-reward option of staying in the USL. But also by not joining they increase the odds that CPL fails, which in turn hurts the Fury's potential for long term success. Sure, they might have joined and then the CPL failed, and that would suck. On the other hand everything I've read and seen from the Fury suggests they're not exactly making money right now, so... I fail to see the business case for sticking with a money-losing venture that has little hope of improvement.

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13 hours ago, Ams1984 said:

Lots of hypotheticals in there. The fact is that the Fury have acted poorly, and as a poster above said, they could’ve sculpted the message very differently. That being said, I am a business person, and I remember when a bank I thought I had a good relationship with said (paraphrasing) ‘now that your father is dead, we’re going to wait and see whether we want to deepen our relationship with you’. I no longer have accounts with that bank. I get that the bank didn’t owe me anything, I get that it may have been prudent or whatever to be less enthusiastic about me than my father, but I don’t want to do business with people who don’t believe in me or what I’m doing. 

From a fan’s perspective, I’m over the Fury, they only exist on the border of irrelevance now, merely kept buoyant in my thoughts by my disdain for them, 

From a business man’s perspective, I think that the Fury have alienated most Canadian fans, and have probably burned the CPL bridge. Even if cooler heads prevail and the league were to decide to welcome the Fury after this nonsense, many fans -like me- wouldn’t be happy about it, 

From a human perspective, something I’m invested in was rejected by the Fury, in a shitty way. You don’t tell someone (or a group of people) that you might later wish to have a relationship with, that you’ll ‘wait and see’ if they can ‘prove themselves’. Not if you want to ever have a decent relationship with them. 

I disagree with what the Fury did, but I’m especially angry about their dishonesty and their arrogance. (it was salary cap concerns that precluded them from joining the CPL, then they dump half their roster... wtf?) then the whole sanctioning thing? They need special treatment or else their being treated unfairly? 

I could go on, but I think you get what I’m saying. 

 

The funny thing about all this is the Fury are owned by owners who own a team in the beloved CFL lol  no? But it seems when it comes to soccer are very skeptical about an all Canadian soccer league working out , I’m not a fan of the pointy ball version of football so could not care less for the CFL or NFL , but kind of find this hilarious in a way I have to admit I’m sorry.

Edited by 1996

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1 hour ago, Viruk42 said:

I continue to disagree that this was a good business decision. Short term maybe, but long term? I can't see it.

The Fury aren't going anywhere in USL - I've said it before, just look at the Fury's attendance. Even if they stopped giving away free tickets to youth teams, they still dropped average attendance by close to 1,000 people after 3 seasons with no growth year on year, including a year where they almost won the league they were in. So they stay in USL and see little to no improvement outside of whatever they *might* get from the league.

Meanwhile there's the CPL. It is high risk, yes, but it also offers potential that the USL doesn't. Again, because no one cares about Birmingham (ah yes, the legendary rivalry we have with Alabama?), Charleston (where?), Loudoun (what?), Saint Louis (is that the same as St. Louis, where the Blues play? Why is Saint spelled out in one but not the other?), Bethlehem (I mean it's great that USL has a team in Palestine, but I'm not sure that makes sense geographically), Memphis 901 FC (I will admit that I'm really impressed that the USL includes a more than 1,000 year old Egyptian team), Swope Park (I'm sorry, what's a Swope?), and, of course, NYRB-II and Atlanta-II. When I look at the Fury schedule I see 0 games that rouse any interest in me. 

At the end of the day there were/are essentially 4 possibilities - Fury join or don't and the CPL thrives or fails. By not joining the Fury choose the low-risk, low-reward option of staying in the USL. But also by not joining they increase the odds that CPL fails, which in turn hurts the Fury's potential for long term success. Sure, they might have joined and then the CPL failed, and that would suck. On the other hand everything I've read and seen from the Fury suggests they're not exactly making money right now, so... I fail to see the business case for sticking with a money-losing venture that has little hope of improvement.

Great application of Pascal's wager.  Who said philosophy was useless.  

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1 hour ago, 1996 said:

The funny thing about all this is the Fury are owned by owners who own a team in the beloved CFL lol  no? But it seems when it comes to soccer are very skeptical about an all Canadian soccer league working out , I’m not a fan of the pointy ball version of football so could not care less for the CFL or NFL , but kind of find these hilarious in a way I have to admit I’m sorry.

I don’t really know much about the CFL so I don’t really have an opinion on that side of things. 

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6 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

I continue to disagree that this was a good business decision. Short term maybe, but long term? I can't see it.

...

This was only a short term decision. Next year they can pretty much count on the CPL option being open if they want it.

As for a rival CPL team in Ottawa, there are many other more attractive locations for a prospective new CPL ownership group, so I'm sure the Fury don't see that happening anytime soon.

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Remember when Shooter McGavin paid that guy to hassle Happy Gilmour. The" You jackass guy" Thats kinda like TFC and Ottawa Fury. The funny thing is OSEG thinks when MLSE brings the cheque for half their roster payroll, they think they're friends and they're going to Red Lobster together

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14 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Check out @FuryForce’s Tweet:

Check out @FuryForce’s Tweet:

JDG still taking his shots at CanPL.

Classy to essentially insult every player signed by CanPL in the process.

What a joke. This stuff is completely unnecessary and really speaks to some insecurities within the organization. 

Interesting to note that when asked about Bekker signing with Forge FC in November, before the Concacaf fiasco, Ivory implies that it only happened "publicly" in December. This is completely against the narrative put forward by Goudie and OSEG that they were caught off guard. Same old crap that has really turned me off the team.

For those who don't know, Greame Ivory aka FuryForce, is a broadcaster for the Fury.

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Dont really see what those tweets aim to achieve. They are alienating their own fans and the rest of the country wanting to see the CPL succeed. It's hardly endearing and comes across to me bitter and likely that they know they are approaching end game. 

An avoidable mess. 

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Those comments could really backfire if they lose to a CPL club in the Canadian Championship. “Oh we don’t want some unproven player from the depths of Europe” (paraphrasing). Then they get beaten by a bunch of “players they don’t want” and players from the depth of Europe.

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Very optimistic for a team that is shaping up to look like a hybrid of FC Montreal/TFC II, two teams that couldn’t compete in USL.  

And isn’t the USL the fastest growing second division in the world?  Still not sure what that means but somehow it ties into the league being “stable” and “quality”. 

Edited by Keegan

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