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Ottawa CPL Club

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3 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

No bias here.  I think that Hamilton is going to average 8,000-10,000 next year.  

They’re capping the lower stadium at 14,000 and I’m not bold enough to say they get that high, but I’m comfortable seeing what I see in this market to say 8,000+.  I don’t think that’s going to far out on a limb.

I know that the general awareness, memberships sold, cross selling to the 30,000 registered players and 14,000 (estimate) Ti-Cats season seat holders is going to translate.  I don’t know if other teams have that kind of cross tie ins.  Maybe Winnipeg?  

I do think it’s close to the best we will see in the CPL in year 1.

I like seeing the “No bias here.” from a guy with a Hamilton supporters group logo as their avatar.

As for the registered players and Ti-Cats season ticket holders, York region has “55,000 registered players spread amongst 15 youth clubs, 6 OPDL clubs, and 4 League One Ontario sides.” Hamilton may very well lead the league in terms of fan support, but those numbers you threw out there don’t make them uniquely qualified to do so.

http://york9fc.canpl.ca/club-overview

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York will probably have a head start on  player recruitment.  Forge FC have the benefit of the Ticats well-organized established marketing machine.  Already there was an event in Mississauga York should have attended and Hamilton had a booth there.  Also less competition from TFC in the Hammer, and a well-established supporters group.  I am likewise biased but I think we see some good crowds in Hamilton next year.

Bob Young seems quite passionate about the project and that might be the best news of all.

Edited by Shortdutchcanuck

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8 hours ago, Protega said:

I think you're way too high (although I don't know the Hamilton market as well as you would).  Ottawa draws around 5,000, but that includes quite a bit of giveaway tickets, or $5 youth tickets.  Edmonton was drawing maybe a couple of thousand in NASL (I realize they had stadium issues and possibly other problems).  And they both had much stronger teams than could be fielded with a  $500k salary cap (although I really do hope this $500k cap turns out to be just a bad rumour).

Yes, but there are examples of USL and NASL teams that have drawn those kinds of numbers so only making comparisons to Ottawa/Edmonton because their Canadian isn’t sound. 

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I would be quite surprised if Hamilton isn't the best attended team, I don't think those numbers sound unreasonable at all. There seems to be lots of awareness about the team. 

Being part of the Ticats organization I think has lead to very easy acceptance.  

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If true, told you so. 

 

 
The CSA holds all the cards, the Fury, true or not, have little to no leverage. 
  1. Fold and lose all your players to CPL 
  2. Don't fold and join CPL

Tough choice

 

 

Edited by Ansem

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The CSA have not been able to close down the latter day CSL and have not been able to enforce meaningful sanctions on people who get involved with it, because the Canadian legal system also applies. It will be interesting to see what happens on this. I suspect a lot depends on whether the CSA were able to tack on some conditions relating to this scenario when the initial sanctioning was provided.

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7 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The CSA have not been able to close down the latter day CSL and have not been able to enforce meaningful sanctions on people who get involved with it, because the Canadian legal system also applies. It will be interesting to see what happens on this. I suspect a lot depends on whether the CSA were able to tack on some conditions relating to this scenario when the initial sanctioning was provided.

My understanding is that they had the power all along to strip CSL of the sanctioning. Don't know about all the details of this file but if the CSL challenged it, that might explain the delay to remove the sanction. However, the CSA can't shut down an unsanctioned league. 

The president of the USL had said himself that the CSA sanction was renewable on a yearly basis. It's the CSA prerogative to sanction or not. 

The CSA can't force a team into CPL, but it can't be forced to keep sanctioning a Canadian team into a foreign league when alternatives exists in it's own pyramid.

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13 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...problem is the damage this does financially to the Fury as a business. That's the probable angle of attack legally.

They knew before the facts and the entire time that the sanctioning wasn't in perpetuity. As the USL president said, it's renewable on a yearly basis. Them knowing that before, during and after the fact and still agreeing to those terms makes any court challenges a steep hill to climb.

Also, courts generally don't like challenging leagues/sports organizations conventions due to the sheer complexity and creating precedents that could provoke a domino effect. I don't see  Canadian court challenging FIFA because effectively, the CSA was granted by FIFA the power and authority to enforce their conventions/guidelines. Any way you look at it, the Fury never had that much leverage to begin with

Edited by Ansem

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I can't see the CPL and CSA forcing the Fury's hand with regards to jumping ship considering the whole Fury operation would be destined to failure if that was the case. You can't force anybody to do business if they don't want to. Maybe the CSA is not giving the Fury "permission to operate" in the USL because they've been told by the Fury organization of their pending move to the CPL.

Edited by Macksam

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5 minutes ago, Macksam said:

I can't see the CPL and CSA forcing the Fury's hand with regards to jumping ship considering the whole Fury operation would be destined to failure if that was the case. You can't force anybody to do business if they don't want to. Maybe the CSA is not giving the Fury "permission to operate" in the USL because they've been told by the Fury organization of their pending move to the CPL.

I truly hope that's the case.

Otherwise, the CSA would just be using their power to their benefit. They can't force the Fury in CPL but they aren't legally obliged to keep sanctioning them either. If removing the USL sanctioning "indirectly" helps the Fury reconsider their position, we can't be surprised at the CSA move. 

It's business, not personal

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Looks like this has gotten ugly and public

 

Can they even play in USL without the CSA sanctioning? Would the USL accept an unsanctioned team in it's league? Messy...

Edited by Ansem

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4 minutes ago, Macksam said:

I can't see the CPL and CSA forcing the Fury's hand with regards to jumping ship considering the whole Fury operation would be destined to failure if that was the case. You can't force anybody to do business if they don't want to. Maybe the CSA is not giving the Fury "permission to operate" in the USL because they've been told by the Fury organization of their pending move to the CPL.

The question would then become who is spinning the "CSA forcing OFFC's hand" angle.  FuryFanatic certainly seems to want the club in CPL year one, and if OFFC wants that as well, I don't see where that angle would be coming from if it's not true.

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If USL wants Ottawa in their league next year Ottawa will be in the league next year.  CSA be damned.

Good luck with that though.

And as cynical as I am that there is any there here (seems like it's all a lark and somebody is pissing themselves laughing right now) if Ottawa submarined their supposed CanPL partners this late in the game then fair enough.  Enjoy the PDL.

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19 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Looks like this has gotten ugly and public

 

Can they even play in USL without the CSA sanctioning? Would the USL accept an unsanctioned team in it's league? Messy...

We only have FuryFanatic's word for the CSA sanctioning thing so far. There were all sorts of rumours that the CSA wouldn't sanction their initial entry to the USL as well and that they wouldn't get into the Voyageurs Cup, but they did in the end. Time to grab some popcorn and watch it all unfold, basically.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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On the USL angle, I think the USL may have submitted their 2019 list of teams to the USSF recently as it was around this time last year that the NASL had their provisional D2 sanctioning nixed based on no longer being viewed as viable moving forward in number of teams terms. Also worth noting that the 2019 D3 sanctioning bids went in from USL D3 and NISA in recent weeks, so it seems to be around this time of year that it gets handled. If so, Ottawa will have already have made their decision of where they want to be and that will be why Mark Goudie is in a position to confirm it.

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I am completely gutted by the Fury confirming that they won't be joining.

Being a Fury STH these last few years years has been incredibly frustrating. Fans were sold fake bag of goods under Dalglish after success under Dos Santos and played terrible soccer.

This year, other than the pleasure of getting to see so much Canadian content, the way the team has been managed by the coaching staff has been maddening and too many matches have left a sour taste in my mouth. It is becoming difficult to convince people to return to the stadium after having attended a match.

I am not sure I can insist more strongly than this: I don't given a f--k about the USL. I can't believe that Hamilton, York and Halifax will be playing professional matches against each other, and I will go have to watch Ottawa play against MLS farm teams and teams like Richmond, Tampa Bay and Penn FC (wtv the hell that is).

I will go watch every Voyageurs Cup matches and some other matches here and there, but I am so disapointed right now that, if I had to make the decision this moment, I would judge that this organization in this league is not worth sinking the time and money into it that I have been doing these last few years.

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13 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The CSA have not been able to close down the latter day CSL and have not been able to enforce meaningful sanctions on people who get involved with it, because the Canadian legal system also applies. It will be interesting to see what happens on this. I suspect a lot depends on whether the CSA were able to tack on some conditions relating to this scenario when the initial sanctioning was provided.

The CSL example is irrelevant because that league lost its FIFA sanctioning, meaning the CSA had no power over the league anymore; it had nothing to do with some particularity of the Canadian legal system.

Ottawa is not allowed to continue playing in the U.S. if the CSA says it can't, because under FIFA's rules the CSA has complete control over all FIFA-sanctioned football played in Canada. In other words, if Ottawa refused to leave they would lose their FIFA membership and would therefore not be allowed to play in the USL because it is a FIFA-sanctioned league. As long as the CSA says no there is literally no scenario in which Ottawa is allowed to continue playing in the USL.

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...problem is the damage this does financially to the Fury as a business. That's the probable angle of attack legally.

This is also irrelevant, the only thing that matters here are the standard terms of CSA and FIFA membership which Ottawa agreed to when it became a member. Any legal challenge would be thrown out of court because we're talking about special sanctioning that can legally only be granted at the CSA's discretion.

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3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

CSA might have to crack the whip

Bear in mind that John Pugh is on the CSA exec. Think this is all sorted if they are using the word "confirm" in an official tweet like that and the question now is more whether CanPL has a plan B scenario on team 8.

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