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Ottawa CPL Club

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2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

First, and for the last time, I am not an Ottawa hater.  I want the Fury in CPL.  I have wanted this since the first time I heard  of it. Please stop acting like I am hoping your team withers and dies.

Second, I am not advocating killing the team and replacing it with some plastic club.  I have expressly posted, multiple times now, that I hope the Fury are in CPL starting in April and every year thereafter.

If you want to make some obtuse point about everyone trying to kill your team, stop quoting me and then acting like that is my position.  Or feel free to find a post where I have said the things you are attributing to me.

 

 

I never said you were an Ottawa hater, but I can see how that would be inferred.  I don't mean to pick on you, but you are just so damn quotable! Often one of your comments has helped me to make a broader point. So I should thank you for that. I very much appreciate your comments on the forum, but we are on opposite sides on this one.  

To your second point, I do feel obliged to point out that this particular back and forth was due to you saying "that some team in Ottawa would help the CPL" and since it did not look like the Fury would play ball then is should be some other team moving in.  My point was that one can't expect a new team to be created with a snap of the fingers and expect it to succeed.  Ottawa has along list of failed sports franchises.  A failed Ottawa franchise is no help to a new league. I respectfully disagree with you and argue that point was not obtuse.  

 

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1 minute ago, Alex D said:

And if that happens it would be justified. But lets call a spade a spade here, the Fury were a typical PDL side drawing 200 fans a game. They showed no reason why they should be handed the reigns to a pro club other than they existed. 

OSEG were the ones who put the capital up front to create a soccer presence in Ottawa and provided employment to quite a good number of Canadians, even some ex-CNMT players (Edgar, Attakora, Henry on loan) before the CPL was established.  For that, they are still in credit with me even though they did not take my preferred option of the CPL. 

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After watching the CFL playoff game and seeing the developments around the stadium... Im really excited for the Fury to join the CPL. They'll have nicest stadium in the CPL, probably one of the best in all of Concacaf

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2 hours ago, Ansem said:

“They knew this was possible,” one source said. “Yet, they went ahead anyway and now they are crying about being discriminated.”

Another person went even further, suggesting that the Fury might have “half wanted (to be denied sanctioning).” The suggestion being that OSEG doesn’t really want to be involved in soccer anymore, but didn’t want to be the bad guy in fans’ eyes, least it hurt them with RedBlacks’ ticket sales.

I think at the heart of this problem lies the wild speculation and mud-slinging that is taking place right now. There is speculation on top of speculation, and until any hard details emerge, no one is going to have a firm idea of who is responsible for the events that are transpiring.

Each side wants to paint the other side as the bad guy. I really want the CPL to succeed, and I wanted Ottawa on board as well, so it would be easy for me to take the above quotation as fact and assume that OSEG is looking for a convenient excuse to get out of the soccer picture. On the other hand, fans in the Ottawa camp might be buying into whatever JdG is peddling vis-a-vis the CPL's alleged role in being a thorn to the Fury's side, which sounds equally dubious in my opinion. The truth of the matter, as is so often the case, is very likely in between what we have heard and read.

It is amazing how much speculation and back-and-forth jockeying has taken place over so little information. All we really know is that CONCACAF is attempting to block the Fury from playing in the USL. We don't even know conclusively who at CONCACAF is responsible for this move - we can all make an educated guess, but for all we know the motives at CONCACAF could be very different from what we imagine would make the most sense from our perspective. Until such details become clear, I think we all need to take a deep breath and wait for more unbiased information to emerge.

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I have to point out some baloney in that Jacubek interview.  He says at the end of the interview the Fury had a record for playing the most canadians. Not sure what number he is quoting (maybe roster spots?) but TFC2,  playing in the same USL in the same year, had a higher % of CDN minutes (from Sandors power rankings).  Last year (2017) both VWC2 and TFC2 had more CDN content on the field than Ottawa.  Its great that Ottawa has been playing so many CDN (lately), but you cant have your own set of facts.  

I think Ottawa will (and we need them to) play next summer, and it'll be in the USL (I think all this is just CONCACAF posturing and its more about where Ottawa is going to play in the future, way too late to say No for 2019), but I also think eventually they'll join the CPL.  Unless this sort of squabbling and fighting sink the whole thing.   Just when I was getting excited about first season.  

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I have to point out some baloney in that Jacubek interview.  He says at the end of the interview the Fury had a record for playing the most canadians. Not sure what number he is quoting (maybe roster spots?) but TFC2,  playing in the same USL in the same year, had a higher % of CDN minutes (from Sandors power rankings).  Last year (2017) both VWC2 and TFC2 had more CDN content on the field than Ottawa.  Its great that Ottawa has been playing so many CDN (lately), but you cant have your own set of facts.  

I think Ottawa will (and we need them to) play next summer, and it'll be in the USL (I think all this is just CONCACAF posturing and its more about where Ottawa is going to play in the future, way too late to say No for 2019), but I also think eventually they'll join the CPL.  Unless this sort of squabbling and fighting sink the whole thing.   Just when I was getting excited about first season.  

 

I am not as convinced as some that Ottawa will be in USL for the upcoming season.  If that was the goal, with a 2020 transition to CPL, I see no reason why CONCACAF wouldn't have just given Ottawa a one year extension with the very clear and certain direction that the sanction to play in USL wouldn't be renewed next year.  As it is, with all the pain and bruised egos of the last day or so, damage has most certainly been done by the way this rolled out.  All of that could have been avoided, with exactly the same outcome (a "play in CPL or fold" scenario for Ottawa next year) if they had just issued the one year extension in a precise way - if that was in fact the ultimate objective.  The upheaval makes me think CONCACAF's position if their final, rather than starting, position on the matter.

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If you consider that the president of the Fury was asked that if there was a deal to play USL in 2019 and transition to CanPL in 2020. His response is no deal.

I think it’s clear that the Fury isn’t going to CanPL unless they are made to.

From CONCACAF ‘s perspective it’s hard to take a team that is asking for an exceptional circumstance clearance to play in another country when they have no interest in playing in their own country.

The soccer world would be chaos if teams could pick their own countries to play in.  The federation has to step in here I think.

 

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So Mark Goudie, President and CEO of Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group, has been making the rounds on the radio shows today.

CBC Ottawa:
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1397009987556/

He was also on TSN Radio in Montreal, but I haven't been able to find that online. If anybody comes across that, please post. I want to hear this discussion:

All board meetings have their topics and minutes logged and typed up. So, if it was indeed said & agreed to by the CSA board members that @OttawaFuryFC could play in NASL or USL but had to join CPL in their inaugural season it will be documented somewhere. I asked @OSEGMarkGoudie

  1.  
    3c9TU5sB_bigger.jpgTony MarinaroVerified account @TonyMarinaro 6h6 hours ago
    if he had a discussion about this with @OttawaFuryFC owner John Pugh about this. @OSEGMarkGoudie said he was not aware of this and never had a discussion about it with John Pugh.

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I posted a few days ago how disappointed I was ever time I read this thread, Ottawa would be a great rivalry for Hamilton and vice versa, after reading most of the posts from the last day there are some good points made but to me it still comes down to the team should be playing in a roughly equivilent league domestically and I am not surprised by CONCACAF's actions! Maybe this should have happened sooner but I am not buying that the Fury were completely blind sided by this, I sure hope in the end the Fury join CPL! 

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Miami (Thursday, December 13, 2019) - Concacaf typically does not comment publicly on sanctioning matters, but due to the lack of clarity regarding the state of the process and the unilateral statements from various parties in regard to the Ottawa Fury Football Club (Ottawa Fury) participating in the 2019 season of the United Soccer League (USL), we would like to clarify the following:

  • Under international sanctioning rules, clubs that are affiliated to an Association may only join competitions in another Association’s territory under exceptional circumstances. For the sanctioning of such play in our region, approval must be given by Concacaf and FIFA; 
      
  • Concacaf to date has not received a formal request from any party to consider sanctioning the participation of the Ottawa Fury in the 2019 season of the USL, despite public announcements by Ottawa Fury that it would be doing so;
      
  • In the fall of 2018, after unilateral public statements made by Ottawa Fury and before any sanctioning application was made to any governing body, Concacaf clearly advised the Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) of its concerns regarding this matter. A further written correspondence to the CSA followed in November, providing guidance on our view that as it stands to date, we do not see exceptional circumstances, given the launch of the Canadian Premier League (CPL) for the 2019 season. 

As the governing body for international football in North, Central America and the Caribbean, we are committed to govern on behalf of all of our 41 Associations and key stakeholders. 

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10 minutes ago, masster said:

He was also on TSN Radio in Montreal, but I haven't been able to find that online. If anybody comes across that, please post. I want to hear this discussion

TSN690 is really frustrating with putting things online, often randomly skipping segments or uploading a broken/incorrect file and never fixing it. The fact that it's not up now means it's unlikely to ever be, frankly.

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Concacaf Statement 
 
Miami (Thursday, December 13, 2019) - Concacaf typically does not comment publicly on sanctioning matters, but due to the lack of clarity regarding the state of the process and the unilateral statements from various parties in regard to the Ottawa Fury Football Club (Ottawa Fury) participating in the 2019 season of the United Soccer League (USL), we would like to clarify the following:
  • Under international sanctioning rules, clubs that are affiliated to an Association may only join competitions in another Association’s territory under exceptional circumstances. For the sanctioning of such play in our region, approval must be given by Concacaf and FIFA; 
     
  • Concacaf to date has not received a formal request from any party to consider sanctioning the participation of the Ottawa Fury in the 2019 season of the USL, despite public announcements by Ottawa Fury that it would be doing so;
     
  • In the fall of 2018, after unilateral public statements made by Ottawa Fury and before any sanctioning application was made to any governing body, Concacaf clearly advised the Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) of its concerns regarding this matter. A further written correspondence to the CSA followed in November, providing guidance on our view that as it stands to date, we do not see exceptional circumstances, given the launch of the Canadian Premier League (CPL) for the 2019 season. 
As the governing body for international football in North, Central America and the Caribbean, we are committed to govern on behalf of all of our 41 Associations and key stakeholders. 
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Just hadn't seen the actual posting of the CONCACAF statement on the board.  

Leave the board early morning and there's like 5 new pages in this topic.  

 

Contact: media@concacaf.org

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That’s quite a serious statement and the ball is now in OSEG’s court as to why they hadn’t made that request given how important it was.  

All potential questions about CanPL viability aside, you have to keep your legal status regardless.  Not getting this sorted earlier reflects very badly.  

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6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

 

Miami (Thursday, December 13, 2019) - Concacaf typically does not comment publicly on sanctioning matters, but due to the lack of clarity regarding the state of the process and the unilateral statements from various parties in regard to the Ottawa Fury Football Club (Ottawa Fury) participating in the 2019 season of the United Soccer League (USL), we would like to clarify the following:

  • Under international sanctioning rules, clubs that are affiliated to an Association may only join competitions in another Association’s territory under exceptional circumstances. For the sanctioning of such play in our region, approval must be given by Concacaf and FIFA; 
      
  • Concacaf to date has not received a formal request from any party to consider sanctioning the participation of the Ottawa Fury in the 2019 season of the USL, despite public announcements by Ottawa Fury that it would be doing so;
      
  • In the fall of 2018, after unilateral public statements made by Ottawa Fury and before any sanctioning application was made to any governing body, Concacaf clearly advised the Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) of its concerns regarding this matter. A further written correspondence to the CSA followed in November, providing guidance on our view that as it stands to date, we do not see exceptional circumstances, given the launch of the Canadian Premier League (CPL) for the 2019 season. 

As the governing body for international football in North, Central America and the Caribbean, we are committed to govern on behalf of all of our 41 Associations and key stakeholders. 

So conclusions.

1-Sanctioning for USL for a Canadian team like Fury is not a blank cheque, the implication is that application should be duly made each year. 

2-If Ottawa Fury knew this and did not request sanctioning, then they were clearly negligent. 

3-Instead of arguing that Concacaf has screwed Ottawa late in the game, which is the narrative Fury is trying to sell, it may be equally or more legitimate to say that the lateness is the fault of Ottawa Fury. 

4-I personally do not respect a team that blindsides the CPL in the way that they did, and then is proven to not have even taken their USL option seriously. When apparently warned in this regard.

5-There does exist a remote possibility that Ottawa has played this hand deliberately, for reasons we shall see emerge in the upcoming days. 

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5 hours ago, masster said:

Thanks for pointing this out. Here is a direct link to that radio segment with AJ Jakubec who is the play by play man for the Fury. Starts at 21:20
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200-1.1225738

There was also an interview with JDG earlier in the day:
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/de-guzman-concacaf-owes-us-an-explanation-why-we-can-t-play-in-the-usl-1.1225676

The Jakubec interview was good. Obviously slanted to the Fury side of things, but very informative. He takes a shot at this forum, so for that alone, it is worth the listen!!

Now, I'm no legal scholar, but I hope, for his own sake, that this Jakubec character has the number of a decent lawyer to hand. He's made some potentially slanderous allegations there. Beyond that, for a guy who apparently makes his living in football media, he seems stunningly ignorant about how the sport works, both domestically and internationally. His drivel looks like a continuation of the OSEG campaign to shit talk the CanPL that they started the minute they blindsided everybody with their announcement that they wouldn't be joining the new league back in the summer.

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18 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

3-Instead of arguing that Concacaf has screwed Ottawa late in the game, which is the narrative Fury is trying to sell, it may be equally or more legitimate to say that the lateness is the fault of Ottawa Fury. 

It's been reported that Ottawa has already received sanctioning from the CSA, which was in turn awaiting a USSF rubber stamp before the CSA approaches Concacaf for final approval. 

From the article (bolding mine):

While the CSA would no doubt like to have the CPL as the sole league, it had already approved the Fury's participation in the USL in 2019. But other governing bodies are involved.

CSA president Steven Reed said his organization is going through its normal procedure, awaiting approval from the U.S. Soccer Federation — which oversees the USL — for its OK for the Fury and other Canadian teams, like PDL clubs, to play in the U.S.

While Goudie said the U.S. Soccer approval on the Fury came Wednesday, Reed said the CSA has yet to get official word of the U.S. green light.

Once that comes, the normal Canada Soccer process would be to go to CONCACAF for its approval. But CONCACAF, seemingly willing to play the heavy, has pre-empted that step.

"We're surprised because we followed the process," Reed said in an interview, acknowledging the CONCACAF letter was "premature" given the consultation is ongoing.

Reed said once Canada Soccer hears the U.S. counterpart has sanctioned the Fury's participation, it would consult with CONCACAF.

Edited by RS

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5 minutes ago, RS said:

It's been reported that Ottawa has already received sanctioning from the CSA, which was in turn awaiting a USSF rubber stamp before the CSA approaches Concacaf for final approval. 

From the article (bolding mine):

While the CSA would no doubt like to have the CPL as the sole league, it had already approved the Fury's participation in the USL in 2019. But other governing bodies are involved.

CSA president Steven Reed said his organization is going through its normal procedure, awaiting approval from the U.S. Soccer Federation — which oversees the USL — for its OK for the Fury and other Canadian teams, like PDL clubs, to play in the U.S.

While Goudie said the U.S. Soccer approval on the Fury came Wednesday, Reed said the CSA has yet to get official word of the U.S. green light.

Once that comes, the normal Canada Soccer process would be to go to CONCACAF for its approval. But CONCACAF, seemingly willing to play the heavy, has pre-empted that step.

"We're surprised because we followed the process," Reed said in an interview, acknowledging the CONCACAF letter was "premature" given the consultation is ongoing.

Reed said once Canada Soccer hears the U.S. counterpart has sanctioned the Fury's participation, it would consult with CONCACAF.

Based on the CONCACAF statement, it seems that they were advising CSA that they would not sanction it from the beginning.  CSA and Fury decided to proceed regardless.  

It is almost like on a first date, a girl tells you she isn't going to marry you, and you complain that she hasn't followed the proper process because you haven't asked yet and go out and buy a wedding ring anyways.

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13 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Sounds like Ottawa Fury management is not a very reliable source.  Always tons of inconsistencies in their story - something doesn’t smell right.

Whatever else comes from these pissing contests (first with CPL and now with Concacaf) this seems pretty clear.   Many of their rationalizations for not joining were found to be factually incorrect and now it turns out that their account of this latest exchange may not be accurate. Thrown in JDG's jabs at CPL and their pretty transparent twitter campaign to fully control the narrative and I am increasingly skeptical of their ability to present an accurate account of things. 

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Honestly, it doesn’t make sense for fury to stay there, aren’t salaries US as well ?

 

we have a Div 1, it’s a comparable level, I’m not sure there’s an economic advantage to staying.

for the big 3, we’re talking about a massive loss in franchise value if a switch is made, and revenue, so it’s exceptional.

 

in TFC 2’s case and TFC 3, well mostly the latter, there’s no d3 in Canada, so it makes sense to allow it and it’s a farm club. Second, for TFC 3, don’t they run the table in L1O ?

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9 minutes ago, kacbru said:

Based on the CONCACAF statement, it seems that they were advising CSA that they would not sanction it from the beginning.  CSA and Fury decided to proceed regardless.  

It is almost like on a first date, a girl tells you she isn't going to marry you, and you complain that she hasn't followed the proper process because you haven't asked yet and go out and buy a wedding ring anyways.

I keep reading here that we shouldn't take the Fury's statements at face value, which is a good stance to take.

On that same note, are we really willing to take CONCACAF's statement at face value?

Edited by RS

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