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CPL General

CanPL General  

299 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the CanPL have Pro/Rel?

    • Yes
      167
    • No
      132
  2. 2. Should the CanPL have playoffs?

    • Yes
      188
    • No
      111


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5 minutes ago, Kent said:

What you are saying is analogous to figuring out how much you can afford to buy a house. You figure out what kind of a mortgage you can handle, do all the math, and then decide to buy a house that is 16% more expensive than that.

In your scenario you are still drawing a line somewhere. But your logic says you shouldn't draw a line anywhere. Why only have a 2 million dollar player budget when you could spend just 2 million more and double the quality of your team again? But there's more, why only spend 4 million when you could spend 10 million, or 20 million, or wait, why not 100 million? That would make a better team, so let's do it!

I know what you mean but I am drawing a line... If they stretch just a little more and agree they can take on an extra million per year in expenses, then put that million towards player salary and the quality of the league will go up significantly. Not to mention you might get that back in revenue due to higher attendance etc.

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28 minutes ago, michaeltfc91 said:

I know what you mean but I am drawing a line... If they stretch just a little more and agree they can take on an extra million per year in expenses, then put that million towards player salary and the quality of the league will go up significantly. Not to mention you might get that back in revenue due to higher attendance etc.

1. Paying the players double doesn’t double the quality. This is my opinion, but if you look at team budgets, it almost always is true. Go look at the spread of budgets in different leagues.

2. Is a place like Halifax going to get more than 1 million in extra revenue for 1 million in extra spending? Especially in the first year? Definitely not. They would need an extra 2000 people at every game to recoup that increase in spending. 

3. If the team wants to bring in an extra 2000 people a game they will need to increase capacity, which will again cost money. 

The league is starting at a manageable cost. They can increase the player budget every year. That ramps up hype, and allows them to grow the league more naturally. Hopefully revenue will follow. The number one reason for business failure is growing to fast. Starting at this point is the best place to be. By your logic, we could just spend an extra 5 million on players and we would have the best league in North America right away. But it just doesn’t work that way.

 

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13 hours ago, ted said:

I think it is, on a time-delay. Once the CanPL is actually up and playing Canada will be given a second spot in the CCL. Giving it to us this year, before the league has even kicked a ball, makes no sense. Within the next two years (given how bureaucracies work) I am 100% confident we will have a second spot to be allocated as the CSA decides and I cannot see them doing anything other than giving it to the CanPL Champions.

Again I'll ask: are you expanding the tournament or taking a spot away from another country to give to Canada?  Because I'm not sure the CL makes money (and thus expanding it isn't something CONCACAF would want to do) and taking a spot away from another country to give to his home country might not be something Montagliani wants to do politically.  I'm 100% in agreement that any additional spots Canada does get should got to the CPL.  But you have to tell me where this spot is coming from. 

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7 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Again I'll ask: are you expanding the tournament or taking a spot away from another country to give to Canada?  Because I'm not sure the CL makes money (and thus expanding it isn't something CONCACAF would want to do) and taking a spot away from another country to give to his home country might not be something Montagliani wants to do politically.  I'm 100% in agreement that any additional spots Canada does get should got to the CPL.  But you have to tell me where this spot is coming from. 

If they decide to take 1 away from another country, it might make sense. The Central American leagues are really bad and mostly have multiple spots. We definitely should. That being said, I’m realistically expecting 1 CCL spot and 1 Concacaf League spot, and is settle for that FOR NOW. 

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Well if Canada deserves another spot we deserve another spot in the CONCACAF league at least for now. 

For those saying “are you going to take a spot from other nations?” Well I suppose, that’s how it usually works unless they expand.  That’s for concacaf to figure out as long as we are treated relatively to other small leagues (which CPL will be bigger than).

I don’t get what you expect to happen? Yes, spots will be taken or shifted around. It’s not a situation of “but we already set the spots! You’re out of luck forever!” That’s nonsense.

for those wondering: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_CONCACAF_League

Every Central American League gets 2 spots (except Belize).. I’d recommend taking one from Nicaragua at least to start.  That would put us level with Belize and Nicaragua so that’s us being VERY conservative.  In future years we should have 2 absolutely no question. 

We want our young players playing down in the Caribbean and Central America so I think the lower tournament is even better - plus our teams can realistically compete.

Edited by Keegan

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I've heard that MLS teams are unhappy with a second Canadian spot being reserved for CPL teams, so they might kick up quite a fuss about this and I wouldn't be surprised if this second spot gets tied to the Voyageurs Cup in some way.

That said, I can't see the MLS teams being a fan of playing an additional eight games (on top of the CCL proper) if the second spot only qualifies to the CL.

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If MLS teams don’t like being excluded from a CPL awarded spot they could always join CPL:)

Seriously though, at a bare minimum if they want a second spot to be awarded via the Voyageurs Cup they should at least be made to enter the tournament at an earlier round. But I hope the CSA holds firm and gives the spot to the CPL if/when it comes.

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...which begs the question of whether teams in a lower budget league with significantly smaller rosters are likely to be any more keen on the CONCACAF League. Even the Champions League is more of a potential headache than anything else in logistical terms given it would start before CanPL's preseason.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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to be honest if i was a canadian mls team i would be pissed if some new league was exploiting my continental success to gain a spot in concacaf play. i'd likely say "hey csa do the right thing and put the runner-up from can champ into concacaf with that second spot"

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Reading up about the CONCACAF League, it seems to be setup with 2×6 + Belize for Central America and three Caribbean teams for 16 in total as a qualifier for one last CCL place after North America gets allocated 9, Central America gets allocated 5 and the Caribbean gets 1. The politics of getting a second Canadian entrant could be very challenging without a complete revamp of the overall format.

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I actually think the opportunity was there to take a spot from Guatemala.  Coming back from their suspension, you simply say "sorry, you start with just 2 spots" and then allocate the extra to Canada.  But Concacaf didn't, so I'll be interested to see who they do take one from.

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The main problem is that the CONCACAF league is being used to provide a 6th Central American or 2nd Caribbean place in the Champions League. North America is already getting 9 out of 16 in the main event, so this extra qualifier event was never intended for North American teams.

Guatemala really has 1 and 2/16ths entrants rather than 3 when viewed from that perspective, and the North American federation with the strongest case for extra representation is probably Mexico given MLS has effectively been getting 5 entrants while Liga MX gets 4.

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1 hour ago, matty said:

to be honest if i was a canadian mls team i would be pissed if some new league was exploiting my continental success to gain a spot in concacaf play. i'd likely say "hey csa do the right thing and put the runner-up from can champ into concacaf with that second spot"

I think that's the argument they will make too. However, I think its pretty reasonable for CSA to fire back that at least one spot needs to go to the winner of the national division one league, and I think it would be reasonable for them to hold firm on that without much criticism from other parts of the world. It's just a matter of whether or not they will. 

Look at England. The FA Cup winner (which is essentially what Canadian Championship is for us) doesn't even get a Champion's League berth. They get a Europa birth. The fact that our FA cup gets 1/2 Champion's League berths (in our future hypothetical) is reasonable.

 

Edited by Copes

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I can't see it happening soon, but if we're only given one spot I'd prefer to see it earned through league play instead of a knockout tournament where teams enter in different rounds. That would leave Canadian MLS teams to qualify through MLS league play. Isn't that how it's done in similar situations around the world?

Edited by C2SKI

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47 minutes ago, C2SKI said:

I can't see it happening soon, but if we're only given one spot I'd prefer to see it earned through league play instead of a knockout tournament where teams enter in different rounds. That would leave Canadian MLS teams to qualify through MLS league play. Isn't that how it's done in similar situations around the world?

Canadian MLS teams can't qualify through MLS play - only American teams are eligible for those.

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The MLS teams and the Ottawa Fury are members of the CSA rather than the USSF, which is what makes things different from the League of Wales scenario where clubs like Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham are members of England's FA. That's why there still needs to be the Canadian Championship to determine which pro level CSA member is the national champion even after the launch of CanPL.

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53 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Canadian MLS teams can't qualify through MLS play - only American teams are eligible for those.

I'm well aware, thanks. That would have to change too.

49 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The MLS teams and the Ottawa Fury are members of the CSA rather than the USSF, which is what makes things different from the League of Wales scenario where clubs like Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham are members of England's FA. That's why there still needs to be the Canadian Championship to determine which pro level CSA member is the national champion even after the launch of CanPL.

Yes. Getting USSF to sign off would likely be one of the biggest stumbling blocks. As fans of Canadian soccer though, I think it's what we should push for. We should have representatives from our own league. 

Edited by C2SKI

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Look, even if an MLS team gets a shot at the CONCACAF league spot the point is we deserve another spot.  Countries like Panama have 4 spots across the competitions and we have 1?  Let's worry about getting the spot first and foremost .. CPL, USL and MLS together and then worry about who gets it later.

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Found this interview with Kyle Becker on the CanPL website an interesting read:

https://canpl.ca/article/well-prove-everyone-wrong-forge-fcs-bekker-leads-charge-for-canadians-returning-home

...“No disrespect to MLS,” Bekker continued, “because they’re growing and they’re doing something amazing, but with them getting a bigger budget and more recognition worldwide, they then have the ability to go out and get a big No. 10 that’s going to come in and be a game-changer not only for the team, but for the league.

“Which is amazing, but we haven’t realized as North Americans … if you have $1 million to spend on a No. 10, why is there an incentive for a team in MLS to grow a No. 10?”...

Think he is correct in his analysis with most of what he says, but it's strange to see a league that at one point was quite adamant that it didn't want to be anybody's development league having one of its players explain so eloquently on its official website why there is a need for one to develop the top domestic talent that MLS isn't able/willing to give playing time to. Hopefully the owners are all on board with this bit:

... “We have this talent in our backyard,” Bekker added. “We just have to take the time to actually care for it and not freak out and go away from everything we should be, which is a Canadian-dominant league.”...

 

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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2 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

Canadian MLS teams can't qualify through MLS play - only American teams are eligible for those.

Yeah, but that's something the MLS teams should take up with the USSF. It's also something that Canada Soccer should advocate for on their behalf. I don't think the fact that Canadian teams playing in American league don't have rules they're happy with means that Canadian teams in a Canadian league should bend-over backwards to help them out. 

One for Canadian Championship, which really is the MLS team's spot to lose. One for CPL. That's what I hope to see in 2020.

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Since the Caribbean places in Concacaf League are based on a tournament, I could see them taking one of the spots from here (since it doesn't belong to any one national federation) and giving it to the CPL season champion for now. There is no way the CPL should be getting a CCL spot until they prove themselves at the lower level. And there's no way an MLS club would want to subject themselves to a lower-level grind against second-tier opponents, so CL spots would be perfect for CPL clubs to get a taste of continental competition.

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2 hours ago, Keegan said:

Look, even if an MLS team gets a shot at the CONCACAF league spot the point is we deserve another spot.  Countries like Panama have 4 spots across the competitions and we have 1?  Let's worry about getting the spot first and foremost .. CPL, USL and MLS together and then worry about who gets it later.

Panama only has 4 because Guatamala was banned.  They're back down to 3 spots next year.  Same with Costa Rica.

Edited by Watchmen

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55 minutes ago, Initial B said:

Since the Caribbean places in Concacaf League are based on a tournament, I could see them taking one of the spots from here (since it doesn't belong to any one national federation) and giving it to the CPL season champion for now. There is no way the CPL should be getting a CCL spot until they prove themselves at the lower level. And there's no way an MLS club would want to subject themselves to a lower-level grind against second-tier opponents, so CL spots would be perfect for CPL clubs to get a taste of continental competition.

So you think Vic is going to tell the 31 Caribbean countries they can have 2 tournament spots instead of 3?  Good luck with that.

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What do people think attendance is going to look like in year one? I think some clubs like Forge will average more than 5,000 a game, while others, like Edmonton will be in the 3k range...

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