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CPL General

CanPL General  

290 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the CanPL have Pro/Rel?

    • Yes
      160
    • No
      130
  2. 2. Should the CanPL have playoffs?

    • Yes
      186
    • No
      104


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2 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

I'm starting to think that you're a troll.

How do playoffs draw attention? Go look at MLS and Liga MX playoff ratings compared to those of regular season games. Look at what TFC's playoff run last year did for that club. Playoffs create drama on a different level to regular season games; playoffs draw their own crowds.

I have no idea what you mean by "teams don't have to win!". Show me a team that has maintained a success organization by not winning.

Hate to break it to you: soccer is a business. You can't create the future of the national team without the money needed to do so.

Pro/rel isn't the only thing that promotes competitiveness. There are a large number of factors. In fact, there are some really good arguments to be made that leagues like Liga MX and the SPL would be better off without pro/rel. It's a mute point though, it will not happen under the CPL structure. 

 

LOL I can't believe your'e settling to compare our future league to the MLS and Liga MX! Wait so TFC is a success? I understand that soccer is a business, it just has to be done right. Hence why Canada is waaaaay behind my friends.

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10 minutes ago, nfooty said:

So I guess we're all on here worried about money. Easy for the ones who dont even play to talk... 

No? This board is for supporters, it's right in the name. We talk about everything and anything. You're talking about the business model and I'm saying that anyone involved with that aspect of the CPL is going to want a return in some way. It's fairly simple. 

Amd I'm sorry but your second sentence is unnecessarily rude and condescending. You don't know who I am. And on top of that if you did "play overseas" and earn a paycheque playing football you would realize that football is a business. So if you think "playing overseas" means you know more than the rest of us who are you? Where did you play? 

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3 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

No? This board is for supporters, it's right in the name. We talk about everything and anything. You're talking about the business model and I'm saying that anyone involved with that aspect of the CPL is going to want a return in some way. It's fairly simple. 

Amd I'm sorry but your second sentence is unnecessarily rude and condescending. You don't know who I am. And on top of that if you did "play overseas" and earn a paycheque playing football you would realize that football is a business. So if you think "playing overseas" means you know more than the rest of us who are you? Where did you play? 

Fair enough. Sorry if I came out that way, just pretty passionate about this stuff and just wanted a good old debate. 

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3 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

No answers?

No, like I said I'm just passionate about this stuff. I didn't bring up my experiences to show I was above anyone, just to show my point of view. What I was was trying to get at is there is a lot of Canadian talent who go abroad for opportunities and are waiting to be able to play on home soil in a league similar to the greatest leagues across the world. 

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52 minutes ago, nfooty said:

LOL I can't believe your'e settling to compare our future league to the MLS and Liga MX!

Are you trying to say that the CPL is above being compared to MLS and Liga MX? If so you should lay off on the crazy pills friend.

I'm finding it hard to believe that somebody who claims to be a footballer is so uninformed about football.

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1 minute ago, harrycoyster said:

Are you trying to say that the CPL is above being compared to MLS and Liga MX? If so you should lay off on the crazy pills friend.

I'm finding it hard to believe that somebody who claims to be a footballer is so uninformed about football.

Never said that. I'm on here to understand what I'm so "uninformed" about. 

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2 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

 

Care to explain?

Was just wondering why we can't aspire to be like the top leagues in the world. But I do understand the league isn't here yet, also. And what I mean by that is none of the top 5 leagues have playoffs nor do they lack a pro/rel system. 

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3 minutes ago, nfooty said:

Was just wondering why we can't aspire to be like the top leagues in the world. But I do understand the league isn't here yet, also. And what I mean by that is none of the top 5 leagues have playoffs nor do they lack a pro/rel system. 

No. You weren't just wondering. You were actively mocking me for referencing MLS and Liga MX as examples that the CPL may want to follow. Two leagues, by the way, that we would be very lucky to ever grow to the level of.

The "the EPL and Bundesliga don't have playoffs and have pro/rel" argument is terribly misguided. Guess what? Neither of those leagues features Canadians! So to be successful should we not have Canadians?

The Bulgarian league has pro/rel and no playoffs. Why aren't they a top 5 league? Here's the answer: Pro/rel and playoffs have little effect on a league becoming a top league. There are tens if not hundreds of factors that are more important.

If you want to post pipe-dreams about the CPL being better than the EPL go for it, but don't be an asshole when people respond with logic.

 

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6 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

No. You weren't just wondering. You were actively mocking me for referencing MLS and Liga MX as examples that the CPL may want to follow. Two leagues, by the way, that we would be very lucky to ever grow to the level of.

The "the EPL and Bundesliga don't have playoffs and have pro/rel" argument is terribly misguided. Guess what? Neither of those leagues features Canadians! So to be successful should we not have Canadians?

The Bulgarian league has pro/rel and no playoffs. Why aren't they a top 5 league? Here's the answer: Pro/rel and playoffs have little effect on a league becoming a top league. There are tens if not hundreds of factors that are more important.

If you want to post pipe-dreams about the CPL being better than the EPL go for it, but don't be an asshole when people respond with logic.

 

Alright so no need to call each other names. Just having a good old argument??

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I would like to clarify that my vote against pro/rel is based on the realities of the situation as I see it. In an ideal world with lots of teams and much smaller travel costs I would have voted "yes". Perhaps the day with enough teams and enough revenue will one day come so I do not want to see the door on pro/rel locked shut with a franchise based league.

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1 minute ago, dsqpr said:

I would like to clarify that my vote against pro/rel is based on the realities of the situation as I see it. In an ideal world with lots of teams and much smaller travel costs I would have voted "yes". Perhaps the day with enough teams and enough revenue will one day come so I do not want to see the door on pro/rel locked shut with a franchise based league.

Good point

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9 minutes ago, nfooty said:

Clearly lol

It is the Voyageurs way. Newcomers in particular are typically roundly abused and sarcastically put down until they realize that anybody with fewer than 1,898 posts ;) is clearly a complete dolt who knows absolutely nothing whatsoever about Canadian football. If you have not yet suffered that fate then hold onto your jock strap! :)

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I prefer a single table structure to determine league champion (it's fair), but I doubt that will happen any time soon considering travel costs in Canada. I like when clubs are given the opportunity to climb the ladder and when clubs are relegated for performing poorly, but I doubt that will happen any time soon considering the low number of professional clubs in this country, and the single entity structure of the league.

Despite this, I disagree that you need pro/rel to become elite. Fans love playoffs, and knockout tournaments. If you don't fancy Liga MX playoffs (which is your loss because they are incredible), look no further than Champions League or the World Cup.

Edited by C2SKI

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You are right, playoffs are awful and don't belong in soccer. That's why everyone loves the World Cup, Champions League, Euro Cup, Domestic Cups, Promotion/relegation playoffs, regular season.

I know my TFC fandom would be much better off if we never played those playoff games last year, in particular against Montreal. It does absolutely nothing for fans and doesn't bring any exposure to the league. http://www.wakingthered.com/2016/12/1/13813052/toronto-fc-break-tv-ratings-records-again-mls-eastern-conference-final-montreal-impact

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To actually answer the question

Pro rel emerged as a solution to a problem that arose organically in a particular context: too many clubs at a high level to fit in a table while the clubs never "owned" the league. It's a compromise that arises from a specific context, there's no reason to force it outside those conditions

To me, playoffs are key. I get that it isn't the choice of purists, but in NA the collective conscience associates champion with playoff champion, just having a table feels incomplete. 

Edited by Complete Homer

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CPL first and foremost needs to become a sustainable entity that provides a professional avenue at home to Canadian players. Everything else is secondary really.  

If we can get a "CFL version" of a soccer league that would be successful in my view.

 

 

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Sees a new CPL general thread, opens it with cautious optimism, only to find out it was two pages on #ProRelForCanada :)

To be serious for a second, the enthusiasm for CPL is awesome, and we're seeing it all across Canada. But CPL as of today is struggling to determine if it will start with 6 teams, 8 teams or 10 teams. And based on what we've heard about CPL, and what we know about L1O and PLSQ, and based on what we've seen with previous Canadian soccer leagues, there is next to zero chance that CPL will start off with pro/rel in 2018 or 2019.

If you browse through the rest of the CPL sub-forum, you WILL find that there was a lot of discussion about whether pro/rel could be eventually implemented 10-30 years down the road, if CPL turns out to be the smashing hit that we hope. For me, the one key thing that CPL has to get right in 2017 is make sure that the league doesn't go with a pure single entity structure, and the little signs we have seen point to CPL avoiding that route. Avoiding single entity will go a very long way 10-30 years from now on being able to implement a CPL2 and pro/rel eventually. Hope that sounds reasonable.

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