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lazlo_80

CPL new teams speculation

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1 hour ago, Macksam said:

They left the NASL because of "high costs" so I doubt we see them in here right now. That group does not have the passion for the sport to undertake this. When the league stabilizes and becomes a sound investment, we could see them at that point but maybe another option for the city might come as well.

If you read the rest of that tweet thread it does not paint the ownership as the most ambitious group.

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That is the sort of thing that leaves me ambivalent about trying to save spots for the Fury or FCEd in the CPL (as opposed to courting alternate ownership groups).  While I totally get the downside of cannibalizing existing clubs, and don't want to beat up on people who have actually put their money and effort behind footy in Canada, CPL will succeed on the basis of strong and committed owners in key markets.  If that means that Ottawa and Edmonton (two markets that surely can't be out of the CPL picture for very long) need to be brought on with new owners, it seems like a necessary evil.

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I still don't think there's a need to rush into those markets.  Yes the league would be better with them but I still think you do more harm than good to  the league long term and the cities in general if you go in there with competing teams.

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Yeah, I suspect I am far-less-than-rational on this one.  If the big 3 urban areas are out in the first pass, the continued exclusion of those two as well, while they toil away in under-performing US leagues, just hits a mental barrier for me.  If they are going to continue investing time, effort, and resources into making a footy league fly, such a huge part of me wants it to CPL so we are all rowing in the same direction.  I realize it isn't like flipping a switch, but their participation in CPL ticks off so many boxes that I get a bit tunnel vision about it.  

Edited by dyslexic nam

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To be clear, Paul Beirne said there were 12 expression of interest and three more "kicking the tires" where they were just beginning the relationship. So, yes, 15 total. And he felt the "first 10" from the league announcement at the AGM all check the right boxes so long as there are no stumbling blocks (i.e., Halifax getting to use the Wanderer's Grounds for their stadium, things of that nature) and would hopefully all get franchises in the coming years.

cheers, matthew

 

 

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4 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, I suspect I am far-less-than-rational on this one.  If the big 3 urban areas are out in the first pass, the continued exclusion of those two as well, while they toil away in under-performing US leagues, just hits a mental barrier for me.  If they are going to continue investing time, effort, and resources into making a footy league fly, such a huge part of em wants it to CPL so we are all rowing in the same direction.  I realize it isn't like flipping a switch, but their participation in CPL ticks off so many boxes that I get a bit tunnel vision about it.  

I think it will happen eventually if the first few seasons go well. There's too much potential to ignore in those markets just because there is competition, and anyone getting into the league as a vanity project is probably going to prefer to be in the big 3

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3 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, I suspect I am far-less-than-rational on this one.  If the big 3 urban areas are out in the first pass, the continued exclusion of those two as well, while they toil away in under-performing US leagues, just hits a mental barrier for me.  If they are going to continue investing time, effort, and resources into making a footy league fly, such a huge part of em wants it to CPL so we are all rowing in the same direction.  I realize it isn't like flipping a switch, but their participation in CPL ticks off so many boxes that I get a bit tunnel vision about it.  

I get what you're saying, makes sense to us but not them.  My hope is the league succeeds without them and they want to join in the near future.  Edmonton I understand because he's got ownership points in the NASL.  If the reports out today about Ottawa and the budget level being a concern is more than interesting (at least to me).

What I just don't get is people who say the league's perception is so important then saying that they should run opposing teams in these markets.  I'm just really afraid of the damage that might cause if you kill 2-4 teams, especially if some of them are the CPL teams.

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4 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

 

might explain why Ottawa isn't very loud right now. 

Interesting... One way or another, Ottawa gets a CPL team, seems like OSEG is doubtful unless they are backed by deeper pockets. I've heard that they indeed did have the pockets for it but I seriously question their passion/ambition for soccer. They seems content and satisfy with the current situation of the team and that fine.

However, there's absolutely no way the league can afford to pass on Ottawa market for the league. If an investor happens to bid for Ottawa and is willing to invest in it, you cannot ignore that bid out of sympathy for OSEG.

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1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

That is the sort of thing that leaves me ambivalent about trying to save spots for the Fury or FCEd in the CPL (as opposed to courting alternate ownership groups).  While I totally get the downside of cannibalizing existing clubs, and don't want to beat up on people who have actually put their money and effort behind footy in Canada, CPL will succeed on the basis of strong and committed owners in key markets.  If that means that Ottawa and Edmonton (two markets that surely can't be out of the CPL picture for very long) need to be brought on with new owners, it seems like a necessary evil.

I see them being pushed out of town (Edmonton --> Lethbridge) (Ottawa --> Gatineau as Montreal Impact's USL team). CPL doesn't mean that they need to fold, but if that ever happen, they would be wise to concede the market or face dire financial consequences by competing.

Damn...I sound like Manning :unsure:

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17 minutes ago, Ansem said:

However, there's absolutely no way the league can afford to pass on Ottawa market for the league. If an investor happens to bid for Ottawa and is willing to invest in it, you cannot ignore that bid out of sympathy for OSEG.

Yeah but if the team fails because of competing teams and the market being unable to support both then what good have you done?  This isn't a sympathy thing, this is a realism thing.  Ottawa is important long term but the damage to the credibility of the league of a failing team is too big to rush in there  But pretty sure we've agreed to disagree on this a few times already :)  

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5 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Yeah but if the team fails because of competing teams and the market being unable to support both then what good have you done?  This isn't a sympathy thing, this is a realism thing.  Ottawa is important long term but the damage to the credibility of the league of a failing team is too big to rush in there  But pretty sure we've agreed to disagree on this a few times already :)  

Hypothetically, Eugene Melnyk wants in, you would pass because of the Ottawa Fury who plays in USL?

You're asking CPL to surrender Ottawa to USL, right?

Edited by Ansem

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2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

OSEG have a lock on the only viable venue in Ottawa barring a pop-up, so that puts it in don't hold your breath territory at least for now, if they are not keen.

A pop-up at LeBreton Flats perhaps?

If what you say is true about OSEG having a "lock down" on TD Place, that makes the city of Ottawa very poor negotiators.

Edited by Ansem

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4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Hypothetically, Eugene Melnyk wants in, you would pass because of the Ottawa Fury who plays in USL?

You're asking CPL to surrender Ottawa to USL, right?

It's not exactly like Melnyk is Mr Moneybags himself with the Sens lol.  And yeah I say pass honestly in the beginning.  I'm afraid the possible killing of two teams is more damaging to the league long term and the market in general than not having a team in Ottawa at launch.  Build the league strong and make them want to join.

That being said if he wants in I can't see them ignoring it.  I just think big picture it's better to pass for now.

Edited by Rheo

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2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

A pop-up at LeBreton Flats perhaps?

If what you say is true about OSEG having a "lock down" on TD Place, that makes the city of Ottawa very poor negotiators.

Woah....you saying two teams in Ottawa? 

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Just now, Rheo said:

It's not exactly like Melnyk is Mr Moneybags himself with the Sens lol.  And yeah I say pass honestly in the beginning.  I'm afraid the possible killing of two teams is more damaging to the league long term and the market in general than not having a team in Ottawa at launch.  Build the league strong and make them want to join.

Make them join? How? How many time have I been told by people here that you can't make MLS Clubs join CPL, how do you force the Fury to join if they are utterly uninterested to spend more?

Why would you want them to be partners to begin with?

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2 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Woah....you saying two teams in Ottawa? 

I'm not. If CPL had a team in Ottawa, I'm sure Gatineau would embrace the Fury as Montreal's USL side which happens to be in the same province. Gatineau is big enough for USL.

I'd actually prefer a pop-up on LeBreton Flats until the case is made for a permanent SSS. That's the best location you'll ever get in Ottawa...right on top of the future LRT

Edited by Ansem

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3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Make them join? How? How many time have I been told by people here that you can't make MLS Clubs join CPL, how do you force the Fury to join if they are utterly uninterested to spend more?

Why would you want them to be partners to begin with?

Never said anything about the making them join.  I said "Build the league strong and make them want to join."

Not force them in, make it too appealing for them not join.  

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18 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Never said anything about the making them join.  I said "Build the league strong and make them want to join."

Not force them in, make it too appealing for them not join.  

Again, what if they don't want to join? Then what?

They are having their cake and eating it too. They would enjoy a "monopoly" on the National Capital Region because they won't spend more on it. I'm not saying people running the Fury aren't passionate about the sport, but clearly whoever controls the cash flow isn't that into soccer.  They could be ambiguous for years on purpose about their intentions on CanPL. That ambiguity would just give them more time holding a monopoly on the 5th biggest market in the country while holding their costs down. Quite frankly does little to beneficiate Canadian soccer in the greater schemes of things like hyping the "battle of Ontario" between TF2 and Fury. C'mon, it's just sad to witness that!<_<

Anyways, these owners are successful for a reason and that's because they weren't born yesterday. They won't pass a serious bid on Ottawa for sentimental reason (which they most likely have none). The CSA could pass on Ottawa so they figure things out but CPL Ownership won't, not in a million year. They need to grow and exposure, Ottawa is a key component and I wouldn't be surprised if there's already a bid on the table for the market, same for Edmonton

The Fury can't compete with an investor willing to seriously outspend them on the soccer side. This is USL we're talking about who's about launch a D3 where all the B teams will be dumped in. Fans aren't stupid and even if you had both teams in Ottawa, CPL would have the better marketing machine and quality...so it's really up to OSEG at this point.

Get in or else. If they can't afford it today, they won't in 5 or 10 years, let alone 15+ years. Troubling part isn't that they can't, it's that they won't. Ottawa deserves much better than being a Impact B team

Edited by Ansem

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I never said forever.  For the record I edited my post after and added

21 minutes ago, Rheo said:

That being said if he wants in I can't see them ignoring it.  I just think big picture it's better to pass for now.

As I also said my opinion of passing the market for now isn't based on being sentimental.  I could care less about the Fury (no offense to any fans)  Just rationally I question whether the market can support two teams.  

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15 minutes ago, Rheo said:

I never said forever.  For the record I edited my post after and added

As I also said my opinion of passing the market for now isn't based on being sentimental.  I could care less about the Fury (no offense to any fans)  Just rationally I question whether the market can support two teams.  

Fury would be in dire danger from the get go.

People are smarter than we give them credit for and figuring out which team and league is higher isn't that hard.

Fury don't need to fold, but being Montreal's B team can't be easy to sell since we're talking about a city that's used to rivalries with Montreal and Toronto in other sports as equals (NHL and CFL). That's why with the Fury's current model, Gatineau (Francophone city with a Metro pop. of over 385k) makes WAY more sense to me than Ottawa. Fury should play within their means in Gatineau where they could lower their costs even further and those in Ottawa who are still hardcore fans of the Fury, can cross the bridge and go see them.

The NCR needs to be a CPL market, with or without the Fury in it

Edited by Ansem

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20 hours ago, Ansem said:

I'm not. If CPL had a team in Ottawa, I'm sure Gatineau would embrace the Fury as Montreal's USL side which happens to be in the same province. Gatineau is big enough for USL.

I'd actually prefer a pop-up on LeBreton Flats until the case is made for a permanent SSS. That's the best location you'll ever get in Ottawa...right on top of the future LRT

I'm not entirely sure how the bids shook out for the Lebreton Flats redevelopment, but I don't recall any of the 4 proposals including anything that would work for a pop-up. Two of them did have a new NHL arena, which will make a world of difference for the Senators. I agree that Lebreton Flats would be a phenomenal spot to fit in an SSS or pop-up stadium if plans could be shifted to make room for one. With both the Confederation & Trillium Lines meeting up there, it would be a great transportation hub for people wanting to go to & from a match.

Additionally, it's kinda on the opposite side of the city from TD Place. I don't think Fury would necessarily need to relocate to Gatineau, but I could see them shifting back to Carleton University given the probable shrink in crowd size if Canadian Premier League were to launch a different team in the area.

Edited by Rintaran
Added Gatineau info

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So listening to Bierne's interview on SPN today, some takeaways...

- Sounds like each of those 10 initial expressions of interest are all in different locations. Seems obvious, but I'd thought there was a chance they involved competing bids

- He said the bids looked pretty good, said some of the markets will be constructing stadiums which will take time. 

- Still saying 6-7 most likely at launch, others need more time

- There will be a "French team" in the league, probably multiple. Said there is interest but turned down getting specific

- No launch date yet...lots of speculation in the public about August 2018, but that's not a guarantee. They will launch when they feel like they can give a good first impression for fans

- Next 90 days is probably a good "rough" timeline for an announcement

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