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Octavio Zambrano

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2 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

If we don't make the group stage at this summer's Gold Cup, OZ should be sacked. We're not building a team from the ground up this time.  Our top 20-25 players are pretty obvious.  He needs to hit the ground running, we don't have time to waste. 

I agree with your first part but will cut him some slack about the Gold Cup. He's coming into it likely with 1 game to test the team. I don't think he's a master of his craft or of CONCACAF/MLS soccer so odds are slightly against him with a single game. If he is able to get results against Costa Rica and/or Honduras we should give him a pass for that.

If we start to see a trend, over the first year, of shitty performances against teams on par with Honduras and Panama then he should be removed.

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1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Is Uruguay south of Scotland?

Come on Jeffrey, you know what I mean.  South of Canada is unknown territory for most Canadian coaches.  He can fly to Uruguay, Chile and wherever else required to get more Canadians onboard.

Edit:  I'm surprised no Canadian coach has reached out to Tony Menezes in Brasil.  He might know some Canadian-Brasilians that might want to suit up for Canada.  Last I heard he was  a youth coach in one of the 2nd div clubs.

Edited by nolbertos

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51 minutes ago, matty said:

 

This isn't 2013. This coach needs to tweak not not blow up. Giving him 6-7 camps and a cup should give us a good idea if he's a keeper or not. If he's a dud then he should be gone before Canada start playing competitive matches again.

 

Ah, I think I see why we see things so differently. If you think this team simply needs a tweak to be sucessful we are in very different spectrums

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39 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

Come on Jeffrey, you know what I mean.  South of Canada is unknown territory for most Canadian coaches.  He can fly to Uruguay, Chile and wherever else required to get more Canadians onboard.

Edit:  I'm surprised no Canadian coach has reached out to Tony Menezes in Brasil.  He might know some Canadian-Brasilians that might want to suit up for Canada.  Last I heard he was  a youth coach in one of the 2nd div clubs.

I guess you didn't catch what I was getting at. Octavio is not in South America as we speak, he's on his way to Scotland. And won't be going back down there for a while I don't think.

I am convinced he'll have a better handle on S America than Floro, who really did not have experience south of Mexico.

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1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I like he is coming with an experienced assistant. Not his son, not a cousin who is on parole.

I know that Floro brought his son, did someone bring in a cousin that was on parole? Who was that?

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Are we talking about Mexico or Honduras? I hope our players have more faith than you do.

Larin, Hoilett, Akindele and Arfield versus Najar, Quioto, Elis and Lozano. 

Help me understand your cynicism

Do you believe our attackers aren't compatible with one another? Do you believe our attackers aren't as talented? Do you believe Zambrano is incapable of getting them to click? Some combination of those things, or perhaps neither?

Akindele isn't a starter and hasn't been a difference maker since his rookie year. And unfortunately, there aren't too many instances of Canadian players playing better for the national team vs their club team. Davies is the better option once he gets his citizenship.

There is hope for Larin but we're still waiting. Larin in better form can probably help us make the HEX but need another good striker to qualify.

Only Hoillett and Arfield have brought their club level performance to the national team but so far it hasn't been good enough.

 

 

Edited by red card

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43 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Are we talking about Mexico or Honduras? I hope our players have more faith than you do.

Larin, Hoilett, Akindele and Arfield versus Najar, Quioto, Elis and Lozano. 

Help me understand your cynicism

Do you believe our attackers aren't compatible with one another? Do you believe our attackers aren't as talented? Do you believe Zambrano is incapable of getting them to click? Some combination of those things, or perhaps neither?

I'm talking about Honduras. Seems every time this country needs a result, Honduras is the opposition and we are unsuccessful.

My cynicism comes from the fact that since following this program, I have never seen our senior men's, U-23 or U-20 have success in an official FIFA tournament. The single positive result I can think of is the 2-0 win over the US at the 2012 Olympic qualifiers. Admittedly it's not a very long period, since 2011, but 1 positive result in 6 years is hardly inspiring. I have no reason to believe that the hiring of Zambrano will suddenly bring about results.

My cynicism will turn when we start getting results in games that matter. As I mentioned in my original post on the subject, and as I said when the pitchforks were out for Floro, firing and hiring a head coach on its own will not make much of a difference in the program. To me, it's akin to changing a flat tire on a car where the engine is blown.

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51 minutes ago, red card said:

Akindele isn't a starter and hasn't been a difference maker since his rookie year. And unfortunately, there aren't too many instances of Canadian players playing better for the national team vs their club team. Davies is the better option once he gets his citizenship.

There is hope for Larin but we're still waiting. Larin in better form can probably help us make the HEX but need another good striker to qualify.

Only Hoillett and Arfield have brought their club level performance to the national team but so far it hasn't been good enough.

 

 

Akindele has not regressed since his rookie year, Dallas has strengthened. He has scored 6 to 8 goals every season on the best team in MLS.

He never was the difference maker in any of those seasons - that title goes to Diaz.

That is what we need from Hoilett, as he is the only player in the pool capable of turning a game on it's head. I suspect he'd be more useful to the team's attack in the middle, where he can support Larin.

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44 minutes ago, shermanator said:

I'm talking about Honduras. Seems every time this country needs a result, Honduras is the opposition and we are unsuccessful.

My cynicism comes from the fact that since following this program, I have never seen our senior men's, U-23 or U-20 have success in an official FIFA tournament. The single positive result I can think of is the 2-0 win over the US at the 2012 Olympic qualifiers. Admittedly it's not a very long period, since 2011, but 1 positive result in 6 years is hardly inspiring. I have no reason to believe that the hiring of Zambrano will suddenly bring about results.

My cynicism will turn when we start getting results in games that matter. As I mentioned in my original post on the subject, and as I said when the pitchforks were out for Floro, firing and hiring a head coach on its own will not make much of a difference in the program. To me, it's akin to changing a flat tire on a car where the engine is blown.

Would you not consider our win in Vancouver over Honduras as needing and getting a result? What about our win against el Salvador on the final match day?

Yes we fell short in the end, but we also had a coach who never set us up to play attacking football. This incoming coach might just do that.

I get the cynicism towards the program as a whole, failings of the youth teams and whatnot, but I think our current group of CanMNT players have some good attacking pieces. 

I don't expect Zambrano to turn us into an offensive juggernaut, but like I said I am excited that he's an attacking coach, considering the players we have.

I believe it was you who noted that our attackers play much better for their clubs. To me, this is not a skill problem, but a coaching problem (one that can hopefully be fixed).

 

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2 hours ago, shermanator said:

I'm talking about Honduras. Seems every time this country needs a result, Honduras is the opposition and we are unsuccessful.

My cynicism comes from the fact that since following this program, I have never seen our senior men's, U-23 or U-20 have success in an official FIFA tournament. The single positive result I can think of is the 2-0 win over the US at the 2012 Olympic qualifiers. Admittedly it's not a very long period, since 2011, but 1 positive result in 6 years is hardly inspiring. I have no reason to believe that the hiring of Zambrano will suddenly bring about results.

My cynicism will turn when we start getting results in games that matter. As I mentioned in my original post on the subject, and as I said when the pitchforks were out for Floro, firing and hiring a head coach on its own will not make much of a difference in the program. To me, it's akin to changing a flat tire on a car where the engine is blown.

I agree, the coach discussion nothing more than a nice distraction.  It gives us something to be excited about, to imagine how this time it will be different. We will be a scoring juggernaut the likes of which CONCACAF has never seen.  

Just like how we wait with baited breath to find out the citizenship status of the mother of an U12 player who did a cool trick on youtube.

And don't forget what happened after that positive result against the US, we tied Cuba.  

Canada soccer motto: crushing our hopes since 1912.  Except for this time.  It will be different.  Right? Please God?

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29 minutes ago, kacbru said:

I agree, the coach discussion nothing more than a nice distraction.  It gives us something to be excited about, to imagine how this time it will be different. We will be a scoring juggernaut the likes of which CONCACAF has never seen.  

Just like how we wait with baited breath to find out the citizenship status of the mother of an U12 player who did a cool trick on youtube.

And don't forget what happened after that positive result against the US, we tied Cuba.  

Canada soccer motto: crushing our hopes since 1912.  Except for this time.  It will be different.  Right? Please God?

 

george-bernard-shaw-quote-the-power-of-accurate-observation-is.jpg

Edited by nolando

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15 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

Ah, I think I see why we see things so differently. If you think this team simply needs a tweak to be sucessful we are in very different spectrums

Tweaks not just a tweak. There are various things that need work but I think we can agree this isn't as bad as 2013. Tweak might not be right to you but he isn't rebuilding the thing from seemingly the ground up like Floro had to.

Remember this is a Canada that can get results against Costa Rica (in the US) and can beat Honduras (in Canada) in competitive matches.

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Objectively speaking, he does tick several of the boxes I wanted to see in the next CMNT manager:

1) He's from Central or South America

2) Likely to coach more of an attacking style

3) CONCACAF experience

4) Will likely have an understanding of the difficulties of playing in challenging environments

5) Speaks English (or French)

In a perfect world, his resume is a bit better and he has shown the ability/desire to stay in one job for more than a couple years. But that said, off the bat I'm cautiously optimistic. Definitely willing to give him a chance. Hopefully he has lofty Gold Cup ambitions because I think that is vital for both the program and to get his reign off on the right foot! (Or left) :P

 

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14 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Objectively speaking, he does tick several of the boxes I wanted to see in the next CMNT manager:

1) He's from Central or South America

2) Likely to coach more of an attacking style

3) CONCACAF experience

4) Will likely have an understanding of the difficulties of playing in challenging environments

5) Speaks English (or French)

In a perfect world, his resume is a bit better and he has shown the ability/desire to stay in one job for more than a couple years. But that said, off the bat I'm cautiously optimistic. Definitely willing to give him a chance. Hopefully he has lofty Gold Cup ambitions because I think that is vital for both the program and to get his reign off on the right foot! (Or left) :P

 

I agree there's a lot of pros to this guy and I'd say everyone should be, as you put it, "cautiously optimistic". I'd say his CONCACAF/MLS experience might be too low/out of date (his MLS success was in the shoot out era) but the fact he's been active in South American top flights with some success avoiding relegation and winning promotion for the last 4 years is nice to see. Fingers crossed for Central American based friendlies.

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Comments of note from presser so far:

Zambrano on #CPL: It is of the utmost important that we have our own league. Says bonafide but peripheral CAN players need a place to play.

Zambrano: Sr. team obviously priority but need to make sure mastery of the ball, tactics are endorsed at grassroots levels

Zambrano: Selection process, monitoring players important. Making sure they're getting good minutes with clubs. Happy w #canMNT's base ATM.

 

Montagliani: "He has been in some challenging environments but his most challenging is Canada. To shed the negative mindset into a positive"

Edited by red card

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