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Octavio Zambrano

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49 minutes ago, canta15 said:

Watch this guy be absolutely amazing because most people dislike him. How many of you loved Floro when he was bought because of his experience with Real Madrid?

Guilty.

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6 hours ago, matty said:

So what's everyones general thinking. Give him a year and if shit bye?

The CSA gave Floro 4 years even though there were warning signs.  I'm assuming 2 years min from the CSA and maybe more depending on results.  He might also be asked to refine Floro's Canadian player improvement plan and how to make Nats players more technical.  I'm curious to hear his plans once he gets to know the players better.

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29 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

The CSA gave Floro 4 years even though there were warning signs.  I'm assuming 2 years min from the CSA and maybe more depending on results.

Floro should have been gone after the Gold Cup but everyone was like "NO WE NEED TO STAY THE COURSE". I do agree he's here till at least 2019 likely. I wish the CSA had the courage to sack a coach if results are not there, like I'll be pissed if this Octavio's first year sees Canada failing to exit the group stage at the Gold Cup and playing poorly in friendlies.

Only downside to sacking a guy for Canada is that the CSA will take 6 months to replace them.

BTW Anyone else think Nick Dasovic is pissed

Edited by matty

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7 hours ago, matty said:

So what's everyones general thinking. Give him a year and if shit bye?

I'd give him a cycle unless stuff goes crazy backwards.

Floro was one goal away in El Salvador from making it to the hex. It's easy to look back now and laugh at his crazy selections but he wasn't as DOA as the legend of his time here makes it seem.

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1 hour ago, matty said:

BTW Anyone else think Nick Dasovic is pissed

Why should he be?? He's a mediocre coach.  His coaching career in MLS isn't that great.  Althought Zambrano is a big question mark, glad the CSA is looking outside the box or old boys club for ideas.  Until we have a proven Canadian coach that has great credentials and has had success in CONCACAF leagues, we'll be hiring more foreigners to help us out.

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9 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

I'd give him a cycle unless stuff goes crazy backwards.

Floro was one goal away in El Salvador from making it to the hex. It's easy to look back now and laugh at his crazy selections but he wasn't as DOA as the legend of his time here makes it seem.

Sorry but I'm gotta hate a bit here.

Can we please stop with this "one goal away from the hex" and "90 minutes away from the hex" crap. So many people do it and it's really annoying and is nothing more than a band-aid of lameness that's somehow lamer than not making the World Cup in almost 40 years. The frequency of this type of statement makes us fans look content with mediocracy from the CanMNT.

I don't think anyone should be given a cycle unless the results they're producing warrant it.

3 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

Why should he be?? He's a mediocre coach.  His coaching career in MLS isn't that great.  Althought Zambrano is a big question mark, glad the CSA is looking outside the box or old boys club for ideas.  Until we have a proven Canadian coach that has great credentials and has had success in CONCACAF leagues, we'll be hiring more foreigners to help us out.

Mostly was joking cause Dasovic heavily hinted he really wanted it (badly AF it seemed) and his buddies were pushing him publicly. I do agree with everything you just said.

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3 minutes ago, matty said:

Sorry but I'm gotta hate a bit here.

Can we please stop with this "one goal away from the hex" and "90 minutes away from the hex" crap. So many people do it and it's really annoying and is nothing more than a band-aid of lameness that's somehow lamer than not making the World Cup in almost 40 years. The frequency of this type of statement makes us fans look content with mediocracy from the CanMNT.

I don't think anyone should be given a cycle unless the results they're producing warrant it.

I think the argument is that you can't completely divorce a coaches performance from the players he can choose from. In 2002 WCQ (Holger Osieck) we were 8 points behind the 2nd place team in our group. In 2006 WCQ (Frank Yallop) we were 5 points behind the 2nd place team in our group. In 2010 (Dale Mitchell) we were 8 points behind the 2nd place team in our group. In 2014 (Stephen Hart) we were 1 point behind the 2nd place team in our group. And in 2018 (Benito Floro) we were 1 point behind the 2nd place team in our group.

At a certain point you have to wonder if the fate of the team might not be entirely down to the coaching. Floro and Hart are typically the most vilified on this board (recency largely to blame I'm sure, others that have been around longer do rail on Yallop and in particular Mitchell) and yet they have had the best qualifying campaigns since the last time we made it to the hex.

As for Zambrano, I don't want to make any black or white proclamations and just see how things unfold. I think this is more complicated than binary results.

 

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11 hours ago, Obinna said:

Yes the good attacking play from our players at club level hasn't been replicated with the national team, but they also played under a coach who decided to set the team up defensively. This is a coach who may do the opposite. That is something to get excited about.

One challenge for the new coach will be to figure out how to maximize the talent of Cyle Larin, Junior Hoilett and Scott Arfield. These are talented players, but if we don't set them up properly we won't get much out of them.

Lately I have been thinking that we should set up like this:

----------------Larin--------------

Arfield----Hoilett----Akindele (Davies)

---------Osorio----Johnson---------

I think we need Hoilett's creativity in the centre of the field because if we are honest, he's the only player in the pool who can really influence or change a game. Put him behind Larin and he'll no longer be isolated. Arfield would not provide the same sort of creative support i'm afriad, but he can (and does) put in a good shift as a left winger, and is clearly good on both sides of the ball. Same for Akindele on the right (or Davies when he's sorted out). That hopefully won't leave us exposed on the flanks, while giving us four front players who can actually play football (I love Ricketts, but he has trouble dribbling his way out of trouble out wide).

Osorio is a skilled player but doesn't take enough attacking initiative, so it's better to give that role to Hoilett and let Jono do what he does well at TFC, which is keep the ball moving and keep possession. In this position we need players who are good on the ball, because if our holding midfielders aren't skilled enough to manouver in tight space during the build up, they cannot supply the front players. This is where it generally goes wrong for us.

Aside of Osorio we can add Will Johnson to provide some steel, or you can rotate Teibert in. Will Johnson actually makes me a little nervous in possession, but the bite in midfield is valuable. What isn't valuable is Straith (or even Piette) struggling under pressure when the ball is at their feet. Piette has it and just needs to get more consistent, but Straith is in over his head in this position. Obviously if Hutchinson will be around, he will command one of those spots, or play it himself, with Osorio pushing forward to support Hoilett.

thoughts?

Sure, that lineup looks decent on paper. But we've never had a lineup that has looked threatening on the pitch, outside of games against minnows.

I don't really have much faith that there is a combination available to us today that can get a result in Texas in the July heat against a nation that rips Voyageurs hearts out at every opportunity. And the hiring of Zambrano has no impact on this in my books.

Edited by shermanator

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1 hour ago, lazlo_80 said:

I'd give him a cycle unless stuff goes crazy backwards.

Floro was one goal away in El Salvador from making it to the hex. It's easy to look back now and laugh at his crazy selections but he wasn't as DOA as the legend of his time here makes it seem.

Agreed. Give Zambrano a full cycle to work with. That gives him 2 full years to address what talent he has to draw from before going into 2022 qualification.

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CPL won't be the miraculous solutions to all our woes, but as Floro said, the proximity makes it possible to give players information, feedback and even hold training camp to work on things that needs to be improved, something that's being done in the southern hemisphere, Floro pointed out. Something he could never accomplish due to MLS interference which frustrated him.

Zambrano needs to be here for 2 cycles so CPL has a chance to start and for him to get familiar with so post 2018, he has a crucial tool to work with for the 2022 campaign.  

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2 hours ago, matty said:

Floro should have been gone after the Gold Cup but everyone was like "NO WE NEED TO STAY THE COURSE". I do agree he's here till at least 2019 likely. I wish the CSA had the courage to sack a coach if results are not there, like I'll be pissed if this Octavio's first year sees Canada failing to exit the group stage at the Gold Cup and playing poorly in friendlies.

Only downside to sacking a guy for Canada is that the CSA will take 6 months to replace them.

BTW Anyone else think Nick Dasovic is pissed

I dont think you can or should fire a national team coach so quickly.  The guy will have 4 or 5 camps, a handful of friendlies and the gold cup to try and make the players buy into his way of doing things.  It will take time and lets remember he is trying to make chicken salad out of chickensh#t.  We dont have the talent to be winning the gold cup, qualifying for WC etc etc.  He needs to have some good showings, build confidence and get more out of the players we have than Floro did.  

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CSA needs to stop doing things they way they've always done things and check into the real world.  Coaches should always have a fire under their ass to produce, that's football.  If we don't make the group stage at this summer's Gold Cup, OZ should be sacked. We're not building a team from the ground up this time.  Our top 20-25 players are pretty obvious.  He needs to hit the ground running, we don't have time to waste. 

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7 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

CSA needs to stop doing things they way they've always done things and check into the real world.  Coaches should always have a fire under their ass to produce, that's football.  If we don't make the group stage at this summer's Gold Cup, OZ should be sacked. We're not building a team from the ground up this time.  Our top 20-25 players are pretty obvious.  He needs to hit the ground running, we don't have time to waste. 

To be fair, you could bring Mourinho himself and it's unlikely you'd get a different result, especially without a domestic league. It's a daunting task and we're lucky to have people interested in a job they are "doomed to fail" in the current circumstances

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

CPL won't be the miraculous solutions to all our woes, but as Floro said, the proximity makes it possible to give players information, feedback and even hold training camp to work on things that needs to be improved, something that's being done in the southern hemisphere, Floro pointed out. Something he could never accomplish due to MLS interference which frustrated him.

 

I'd like to apologize in advance for this, but I have to point out that people on this site have referred to the "Southern Hemisphere" a lot on here, seemingly not knowing which countries are in it. This might not be one of those cases, I'm not sure, but it seems like you are probably talking about Central American countries, none of which are in the Southern Hemisphere. If you don't take the time to look for the equator on the map, it's shocking how far south you have to go to get there. Venezuela isn't even in the southern hemisphere. Neither is most of Colombia, and a bit of Brazil. Other Northern Hemisphere countries include Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, India, Thailand, and Malaysia. So when you are talking about Southern Hemisphere countries, just be aware you are talking about Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and most of Brazil.

End of pet peeve rant.

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Zambrano needs to be here for 2 cycles so CPL has a chance to start and for him to get familiar with so post 2018, he has a crucial tool to work with for the 2022 campaign.

The romantic in me wants Zambrano get one cycle (so probably done in 2020 when we fail at the same phase we always do) and then we bring back Holger Osieck since we will have our own pro league, which was something he was adamant we needed. Then he brings us back to the World Cup in 2026, 40 years after the last time we made it.

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5 hours ago, canta15 said:

Watch this guy be absolutely amazing because most people dislike him.

I actually feel like this guy is going to be liked by many of the V's. He seems likely to be a straight shooter, perhaps making some enemies and turning away a few players along the way, but if his track record is still true he won't be dull, on or off the field. I think he'll also tell the greater CSA exactly what's wrong with the system, which will probably be refreshing for many.

Edited by nolando

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2 hours ago, matty said:

Sorry but I'm gotta hate a bit here.

Can we please stop with this "one goal away from the hex" and "90 minutes away from the hex" crap. So many people do it and it's really annoying and is nothing more than a band-aid of lameness that's somehow lamer than not making the World Cup in almost 40 years. The frequency of this type of statement makes us fans look content with mediocracy from the CanMNT.

I don't think anyone should be given a cycle unless the results they're producing warrant it.

Mostly was joking cause Dasovic heavily hinted he really wanted it (badly AF it seemed) and his buddies were pushing him publicly. I do agree with everything you just said.

how is it crap? Its a fact. If you want to editorialize it as me accepting mediocrity that's fine, I'm just stating a fact.

 

This isn't a club team. A coach doesn't get to work with his players day in, day out. I think if you expect to see crazy changes after a year when he might not of even been able to see his entire player pool you might be expecting too much.

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17 minutes ago, nolando said:

I actually feel like this guy is going to be liked by many of the V's. He seems likely to be a straight shooter, perhaps making some enemies and turning away a few players along the way, but if his track record is still true he won't be dull, on or off the field. I think he'll also tell the greater CSA exactly what's wrong with the system, which will probably be refreshing for many.

Until he start the Vancouver Rainz FC U19 to kick the Whitecaps to the curb and then sells all the players to the CPL! #crookedtavi

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16 minutes ago, nolando said:

I actually feel like this guy is going to be liked by many of the V's. He seems likely to be a straight shooter, perhaps making some enemies and turning away a few players along the way, but if his track record is still true he won't be dull, on or off the field. I think he'll also tell the greater CSA exactly what's wrong with the system, which will probably be refreshing for many.

My guess is we lose against Scotland, and people say we were expected to lose, and he was just brought on, so he needs more time. Then we beat Curacao, probably score multiple goals, and people go crazy talking about how this is what happens when you don't play 8 CBs and bunker. People make plans to build a statue to honour him. Then we crash out of the Gold Cup in the group stage, but score a goal. People are less enthusiastic, but still cautiously optimistic because we scored a goal, which is an improvement over the last two Gold Cups. Then we fail in World Cup Qualifying in the 2nd last round, and people want to murder him and question why we ever hired this guy in the first place.

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12 hours ago, nolbertos said:

Maybe he can convince Cavallini to join the Canadian Nats.  Being a South Anerican coacv, might make Cavallini commit to a more offensive minded attack.  I'd say Zambrano and his crew fly down south and talk to him.

Is Uruguay south of Scotland?

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I like this choice, for reasons not really related to his recent cv.

-I like that he has MLS experience, and North American, and speaks good English. He is going to work better with players, and likely with our coaching teams of the youth, and the CSA people, and De Vos. He'll also handl press better, we'll understand why things are being done.

-I like he is coming with an experienced assistant. Not his son, not a cousin who is on parole. That means he is not going to have a yes-man by his side, but someone he can hash things out with.

-I looked at his twitter and a few weeks ago he was retweeting stories about young Canadian players in MLS. so maybe he had word already, it was not announced, but he was looking. I think he has already gotten to work, knows our player pool, has watched our games. That suggests he is ready to walk in and take our Scotland camp and will hit the ground running.

Now all we need to sort out for him is some better quality central defenders, the rest should be fine. 

BTW, I am all in favour of him bringing in Cavallini, our guys in Chile, Aleman, and getting Osorio back into the mix immediately. I sure hope the CSA is not on some vendetta thing vs. Osorio, contaminated by Floro's thinking. The guy has to have total freedom to call who he wants. Including Occeán.

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1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

I dont think you can or should fire a national team coach so quickly.  The guy will have 4 or 5 camps, a handful of friendlies and the gold cup to try and make the players buy into his way of doing things.  It will take time and lets remember he is trying to make chicken salad out of chickensh#t.  We dont have the talent to be winning the gold cup, qualifying for WC etc etc.  He needs to have some good showings, build confidence and get more out of the players we have than Floro did.  

I'm not saying sack him in a year if there's nothing there but if the guy outright fails completely (shitty Gold Cup, meh in the more challenging friendlies) he should be gone before Canada starts playing meaningful games. The situation he's coming into is much better than what Floro came into in 2013 (funny how everyone forgets that) and doing fuck all against CONCACAF meh teams shouldn't be deemed acceptable.

Just now, lazlo_80 said:

how is it crap? Its a fact. If you want to editorialize it as me accepting mediocrity that's fine, I'm just stating a fact.

This isn't a club team. A coach doesn't get to work with his players day in, day out. I think if you expect to see crazy changes after a year when he might not of even been able to see his entire player pool you might be expecting too much.

This isn't 2013. This coach needs to tweak not not blow up. Giving him 6-7 camps and a cup should give us a good idea if he's a keeper or not. If he's a dud then he should be gone before Canada start playing competitive matches again.

Also it's crap for the exact reasons I said also it has a "he wasn't so bad" vibe to it and it wasn't addressing you but a wider group here that make similar comments and both Floro and Hart.

2 hours ago, Kent said:

I think the argument is that you can't completely divorce a coaches performance from the players he can choose from....

I don't think you can but only one is really changable and that's the coach. If a coach's approach isn't working with the players then you need to make a change. Far to often Canadian fans scream "stay the course" and I think that's wrong especially when staying the course has never worked in the past.

 

2 hours ago, Kent said:

...I think this is more complicated than binary results.

I get where you're coming from but if the results are not there the team fails

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2 hours ago, shermanator said:

Sure, that lineup looks decent on paper. But we've never had a lineup that has looked threatening on the pitch, outside of games against minnows.

I don't really have much faith that there is a combination available to us today that can get a result in Texas in the July heat against a nation that rips Voyageurs hearts out at every opportunity. And the hiring of Zambrano has no impact on this in my books.

Are we talking about Mexico or Honduras? I hope our players have more faith than you do.

Larin, Hoilett, Akindele and Arfield versus Najar, Quioto, Elis and Lozano. 

Help me understand your cynicism

Do you believe our attackers aren't compatible with one another? Do you believe our attackers aren't as talented? Do you believe Zambrano is incapable of getting them to click? Some combination of those things, or perhaps neither?

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