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CCL Format Changes

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We have white smoke out of Nicaragua: FENIFUT is reporting that the CCL will adopt the following format.

Stage 1

16-team knockout round in the fall. Participants:
 
  • 2 from Costa Rica
  • 2 from Honduras
  • 2 from Guatemala
  • 2 from Panama
  • 2 from El Salvador
  • 2 from Nicaragua
  • 1 from Belize
  • 3 from the Caribbean

They are to be drawn into home-and-away playoffs, paring the field down to 1 fall CCL winner.

Stage 2

16-team knockout round in the spring. Participants:
 

  • 1 CCL fall winner
  • 4 from Mexico
  • 4 from the US
  • 1 from Canada
  • 5 from Central America
  • 1 from the Caribbean

Drawn into the CCL Round of 16 proper, eliminations until we have a champion and CWC representative.

 

 

So now it's a cup rather than a league with a really f%%^ed up prelim round

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Its different and I actually kind of like it. Since its knock out right away, teams will be taking it seriously from the get go, instead of fielding reserve teams. I could see it evolving back into more of a league format a few years from now if it begins to be a bit more prestigious

Would the Caribbean and Central American participants in round 2 be decided from Round 1 I guess?

Edited by deschamp86

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Oh god I hope this isn't accurate. This is worse in my opinion. All I want to be changed for CCL is for them to use coefficients based on performance to decide how many spots each country gets, and for them to stop the ridiculous rule that Mexican teams and American teams can't be drawn into the same group. Without those the confederation basically just decrees a ranking of nations, and gives a bit of extra help to the top 2 of those decided to be the best.

This new format takes things a step further by giving some nations a bye past the first round. No, no, no, a thousand times no!

It even seemingly could have teams advancing from the first round despite being behind other teams that don't get to advance. That is assuming the 5 Central American teams and 1 Caribbean team are determined by the first round. Let's say, somehow, Caribbean teams finish 2nd and 3rd in the first round. So the 2nd place team advances, but the 3rd place team is eliminated so that lower ranked Central American teams can advance? Of course the more likely scenario is that the highest ranked Caribbean team is ranked lower than a Central American team that doesn't advance, but I went with the easier example, and it would be worse to not advance while being in 3rd place, as opposed to 6th or 7th place.

What happens if/when the CPL comes into existence? Is there any mechanism to allow us to earn a 2nd spot? If so, does that 2nd spot go in the first round or do we bump a Central American team out of the final round cuz Canada?

Come on Montagliani. You can do better than this! Take the tournament forward, not backwards! I hate this.

Edited by Kent

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I don't mind this, because the group stage was just a drain on depth for MLS teams that can't really afford great depth due to the cap.  

I don't fully understand where the six non-first stage Central American/Caribbean teams come from.  I would assume they are the champions of the bigger leagues (Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, Guatemala, El Salvador, CFU winner).  If that's the case, I continue to wonder how El Salvador or Panama get three teams in this tournament and we only get one.  

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Not a fan of this if true. CCL is a good place for Canadians on the fringe of the first team to get minutes, and this takes away from that.

Personally, I liked the format the way it was from 2008-12, with the qualifying round and then 4 groups of 4, followed by knockout.

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55 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

I'm hoping Canada will eventually get a 2nd spot in CCL reserved only for the CanPL champion

With Montagliani as head of CONCACAF, it's safe to say that this might ultimately be the end game

Also, it seems the new format was designed to help both MLS and CPL by lightening their game load.

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Cripes. This interview makes it sound like the original post might be right.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/12/23/canadian-soccer-boss-supports-world-cup-expansion

"The best way to do it is to put (in) the teams you know are going to be in that final 16, or final eight.”

This is hurting my confidence in Vic if it is what it sounds like:(

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16 hours ago, Mister215Guy said:

They should make MLS teams play against Central America/Caribbean instead of automatically advancing to the 2nd stage.

This is the first post on this site that I have seen from you that is actually sensible. I'm glad you didn't explain your reasons and go off the rails again.

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On 05/01/2017 at 9:31 PM, Mister215Guy said:

Since MLS teams struggle against Jamaica and Trinidad, why should they automatically advance when 2 Costa Rican sides have to play the 1st stage?

 

51318ecca9462e502a85ab579c9859e7c4d57d13278979d0aba21d32e9b99640_1.jpg

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On 05/01/2017 at 9:31 PM, Mister215Guy said:

Since MLS teams struggle against Jamaica and Trinidad, why should they automatically advance when 2 Costa Rican sides have to play the 1st stage?

 

images (3).jpg

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On 05/01/2017 at 9:31 PM, Mister215Guy said:

Since MLS teams struggle against Jamaica and Trinidad, why should they automatically advance when 2 Costa Rican sides have to play the 1st stage?

 

nickelbackHarper.jpg

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CONCACAF announced changes to the tournament starting in 2017-18. 16 team tournament for Central American / CFU teams, with the winner qualifying to the 16 team CCL. I'm not a huge fan of this change as I thought the CCL was a good way to get depth players (specifically Canadian depth players) more minutes against opposition of a varying quality.

http://www.concacaf.com/article/concacaf-expands-club-competition-field-implements-new-champions-league-format

Quote

The format of the new Champions League will mirror the first tournament, with eight home-and-away knockout pairings kicking off four rounds, culminating in the home-and-away Grand Final of the CONCACAF Champions League, which provides the Confederation champion with a berth in the FIFA Club World Cup.  The league’s compact new design and dual-tournament format means all of the Confederation’s teams will be able to contest a full championship in a time period fully within one league season, so clubs can take home a trophy while beginning and ending a Champions League phase with the same group of players.

Clubs that have already qualified for the 2017/18 edition of the Scotiabank CONCACAF Champions League maintain guaranteed participation in one of the two tournaments of the upcoming club championship season; which tournament is decided based on aggregate results and the indexing of the respective leagues.

Edited by shermanator

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I'm glad they are trying to present phase 1 as a sort of secondary cup.

Kind of surprised the v cup finalist isn't in the new tournament.

Edited by matty

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10 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

Probably because Canadian teams have been so strong in the CCL.  On bigsoccer I saw a rankings based on team performance in CCL and Canada was 2nd after Mexico .

I know and we've also set some attendance records for ccl. I figured this change would have been viewed as a good chance to get a second Canadian team in especially with the cpl coming up. Oh well.

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48 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

Probably because Canadian teams have been so strong in the CCL.  On bigsoccer I saw a rankings based on team performance in CCL and Canada was 2nd after Mexico .

Maybe currently, but a bit surprised at this long term, given how long the LA Galaxy was the MLS team to beat. That said, I believe Mexico commented on this some time ago, and how they don't like the fact that the Canadian teams they face don't really have to play Canadians, feeling it is a bit of an unfair advantage given they don't have to spend time and effort developing them.

Edited by -Hammer-

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Where would a CPL Champion and it's finalist be?

I would prefer:

  • CPL Runner-up and Regular season Champion Phase 1
  • CPL Cup Champion Phase 2

Drop the CFU Champion to Phase 1 (if they leave, if not drop them to Phase 1 anyways)

Edited by Ansem

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6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Where would a CPL Champion and it's finalist be?

I would prefer:

  • CPL Runner-up and Regular season Champion Phase 1
  • CPL Cup Champion Phase 2

Drop the CFU Champion to Phase 1 (if they leave, if not drop them to Phase 1 anyways)

I think when they do enter the cpl champ we'll see them enter in phase 1 in one of the cfu spots.

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I am still not a fan of this change. I'm curious what the heck they mean by this:

"Countries and sub-regions will be assigned to participate in each of the two tournaments based on a competition index created by CONCACAF, which takes into account regional and national leagues’ success in the Champions League over the past nine seasons, since the group-phase format was introduced."

As far as the reasoning that each team in the competition gets to play it during a single domestic season, I think that means we have to make sure the CPL starts it's season in May, so that we will increase our odds of getting a bye all the way to the CCL final.

As for the length of the tournament, for a Canadian team to win it all, this is how many games they've had to play

2008-9 until 2011-12: 14 games (preliminary round, plus a 4 team group stage)
2012-13 until 2016-17: 10 games (no preliminary round, 3 team group stage)
New format: 8 games (no preliminary round or group stage, extra knockout round)

And finally, for those suggesting Canada should/could have gotten another spot with this new format, I think that would be pretty generous for a country with a 5 team pyramid. In UEFA a nation's top division needs at least 8 teams, if I'm not mistaken, in order to play in European competitions. If/when the CPL starts up I think is the time to talk about another spot.

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12 minutes ago, Kent said:

 

And finally, for those suggesting Canada should/could have gotten another spot with this new format, I think that would be pretty generous for a country with a 5 team pyramid. In UEFA a nation's top division needs at least 8 teams, if I'm not mistaken, in order to play in European competitions. If/when the CPL starts up I think is the time to talk about another spot.

I get why we didn't and agree with the logic but Canadian teams have performed very strongly in this tournament and canadian ccl home games draw a high number of spectators. With the cpl seemingly on the horizon, introducing a second canadian spot now and allocating to the vcup finalist for a short term period of time would arguably be easier than removing a spot from cfu or creating a playoff.

Edited by matty

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