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FIFA rankings - why they are important and how to beat the system

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Just checking points and the teams that beat Curacao both received over 1000 points for their wins.  Teams like Canada that beat non recognized teams, French Guiana and Martinique, receive nothing.  Yet another reason for Concacaf to ensure all teams in the competition are fifa sanctioned as it penalizes some teams with respect to the rankings for the next round of qualifying.

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1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

I know the FIFA Rankings matter but if I am looking at rankings to see where we REALLY stand in world football, I use the ELO rankings.

Yes, that may make some of us happy, but it is absolutely meaningless. 

It is like asking your blow-up plastic doll if she likes you, and she smiles back. So you think she does.

The only rating that matters is the one that affects seeding, that allows you to play vs. lesser rivals and not be an underdog. Basically, that makes it easier for you to qualify for WC and get results in Gold Cup. FIFA. Which explains the logic and realism of this thread, dsqpr, you have to beat the FIFA system and none other. 

Could you imagine a tennis player having to play qualifiers for tournaments, ranked 109, and his fans went around saying to everyone that  really, according to another more authentic ranking other than ATP, he was top 60? He'd be laughed off the court.

Folks should be clear about that by now, ELO is basically a way to stay deluded. Only Fifa matters.

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20 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Yes, that may make some of us happy, but it is absolutely meaningless. 

It is like asking your blow-up plastic doll if she likes you, and she smiles back. So you think she does.

The only rating that matters is the one that affects seeding, that allows you to play vs. lesser rivals and not be an underdog. Basically, that makes it easier for you to qualify for WC and get results in Gold Cup. FIFA. Which explains the logic and realism of this thread, dsqpr, you have to beat the FIFA system and none other. 

Could you imagine a tennis player having to play qualifiers for tournaments, ranked 109, and his fans went around saying to everyone that  really, according to another more authentic ranking other than ATP, he was top 60? He'd be laughed off the court.

Folks should be clear about that by now, ELO is basically a way to stay deluded. Only Fifa matters.

Hey UT, wanna fight? Warning: I'm all warmed up!

I totally agree that only the FIFA rankings actually matter. However, it seems as though you agree that the ELO rankings are the ones that much more closely reflect reality. Which I think makes them much more interesting than the FIFA Rankings. 

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9 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Hey UT, wanna fight? Warning: I'm all warmed up!

I totally agree that only the FIFA rankings actually matter. However, it seems as though you agree that the ELO rankings are the ones that much more closely reflect reality. Which I think makes them much more interesting than the FIFA Rankings. 

More interesting....if your plastic girlfriend is more interesting than a real woman. ..then I'd agree.

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10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

More interesting....if your plastic girlfriend is more interesting than a real woman. ..then I'd agree.

Having never experienced a plastic girlfriend, I may argue that they can be indeed more interesting... ;)

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I was really hoping for a win over Honduras more for the ranking points than anything else.  I wasn't too worried about advancement with 4 points in the bag.  It's our last chance before 2022 WCQ seeding to get a points boost from the continental multiplier.

However, If Victor follows through with his pledge to expand the final round of World Cup qualifying then it may be less of an issue than it's been in the past.  

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9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

ELO, to make it easier, is a pillow to a teenager. FIFA rankings are your wife. 

 

How about ELO is a mistress and FIFA rankings a wife...


(they say that about Sydney and Melbourne, respectively)

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Below is how are ranking points should look after the Jamaica game:

Loss: 352 

Loss in penalty's: 381

Win: 438 (this gets averaged down with the next game)

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37 minutes ago, mikey_s_ said:

Below is how are ranking points should look after the Jamaica game:

Loss: 352 

Loss in penalty's: 381

Win: 438 (this gets averaged down with the next game)

But wouldn't a win in penalties be different than in regulation.  If we win in penalties, we'd be at 381, which could get averaged down after the semis.  No?

 

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10 minutes ago, Addona said:

But wouldn't a win in penalties be different than in regulation.  If we win in penalties, we'd be at 381, which could get averaged down after the semis.  No?

 

Weirdly enough a win on penalties is worth exactly double a loss on penalties. The points are calculated as 3 points per win, 1 per draw (or penalty shootout loss), 0 per loss, and 2 per penalty shootout win. Then 0, 1, 2, or 3 is multiplied by some other coefficients.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/fifafacts/rawrank/ip-590_10e_wrpointcalculation_8771.pdf

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A bit disappointing that the ranking tool doesn't let you see what would happen in the case of winning on penalties.

Based on what jonovision was posting I think we would be at about 409 or so with a penalty win?

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1 hour ago, jonovision said:

Weirdly enough a win on penalties is worth exactly double a loss on penalties. The points are calculated as 3 points per win, 1 per draw (or penalty shootout loss), 0 per loss, and 2 per penalty shootout win. Then 0, 1, 2, or 3 is multiplied by some other coefficients.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/fifafacts/rawrank/ip-590_10e_wrpointcalculation_8771.pdf

Really?!?  I always thought that matches that went to penalties were viewed as draws as far as ranking points, regardless of whether you won or lost the penalty shootout.  I guess you learn something new every day ...

 

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4 hours ago, Addona said:

But wouldn't a win in penalties be different than in regulation.  If we win in penalties, we'd be at 381, which could get averaged down after the semis.  No?

 

True forgot to put that scenario. A win on penalties would put us at 410.

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22 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

btw..how did Curacao get to 68th ranking?...

By beating the following giants of soccer in Caribbean Cup qualifying plus the Caribbean Cup itself.

Dominican Republic, Guyana, US Virgin Islands, Antigua and Barbuda, Puerto Rico, and Jamaica.

While only losing to unbeatable foes Barbados.

Edited by Kent

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8 minutes ago, Kent said:

By beating the following giants of soccer in Caribbean Cup qualifying plus the Caribbean Cup itself.

Dominican Republic, Guyana, US Virgin Islands, Antigua and Barbuda, Puerto Rico, and Jamaica.

While only losing to unbeatable foes Barbados.

they are going to drop down after the results in gold cup though..

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2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Now that We've qualified to the quarterfinals, how much would they advance in the FIFA Rankings? Considering they are placed 100! 

If we lose to Jamaica we will end up in the low to mid 90's.  If we win, it will keep going up.  If we won the whole thing we would be somewhere in the high 60's when I ran a best case scenario.  Like beating Jamaica, Mexico and Costa Rica would give us a huge number of points.

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4 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

If we lose to Jamaica we will end up in the low to mid 90's.  If we win, it will keep going up.  If we won the whole thing we would be somewhere in the high 60's when I ran a best case scenario.  Like beating Jamaica, Mexico and THE USA would give us a huge number of points.

Isn't that what you meant ;)

 

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