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Ballou Tabla

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5 hours ago, El Hombre said:

I stopped reading after that.  No use continuing the discussion.

I don't see why. I've seen a few of his matches now and he looks better than Henry. Better positioning and technical skills.

lets put it this way, I don't think Henry would be playing for England u20 if he was English or u20

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On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 8:55 AM, SCF08 said:

You're right buddy. Scoring important goals is clearly something only his royal highness Ricketts can do and he's surely proven that over the last few years. How stupid am I. Sure Chelsea will be after him soon.

Having Tabla in the team instead of Ricketts and Tomori instead of any of the rubbish defenders that are playing at the moment would've massively improved the team.....let alone what it would've done for the future. 

If you're gonna drop one of Jackson and Ricketts to accommodate Tabla, it would be the former. Ricketts, although frustrating, has earned his keep for now. 

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A 17 year old usl player shouldn't be anywhere near the senior national team. Focus on development and making it to a higher level. The more pressure and expectations in this environment and at this age the more chances of being a bust. There are also more interesting players his age or younger: Davies, Millar...

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4 hours ago, Big_M said:

A 17 year old usl player shouldn't be anywhere near the senior national team. Focus on development and making it to a higher level. The more pressure and expectations in this environment and at this age the more chances of being a bust. There are also more interesting players his age or younger: Davies, Millar...

I suspect people want to cap tie him (in the GC) more than they actually think he can contribute. 

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The goal in international competitions should be results, not to tie players who might or might not make it as high level pros. A 15 year old who is playing mls games yes, not 17 year olds who haven't made it yet. Usl is a very low level of professional soccer and doesn't mean much other than potential if a young player is playing in it. The large majority won't make it to higher levels.

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49 minutes ago, Big_M said:

The goal in international competitions should be results, not to tie players who might or might not make it as high level pros. A 15 year old who is playing mls games yes, not 17 year olds who haven't made it yet. Usl is a very low level of professional soccer and doesn't mean much other than potential if a young player is playing in it. The large majority won't make it to higher levels.

Yeah, of course, in an ideal world. Unfortunately Canada does not have such a glorious pipeline of talent that we can wait for very talented (by our standards) youngsters to develop, become better players, and then decide to play for a country with more to offer on the international stage. Is it cynical? Sure. However, our other option is to sit and wait for this country to develop amazing homegrown talent that has no choice to play for Canada, but how far from that day are we? You have to admit, the top talents in our pipeline all have options to play for better footballing nations.

How do you achieve long-term results if your most promising talent ends up playing for another country?

 

edit: I'll add that I don't think we should call Tabla for the purpose of cap-tying him. However, I do see value in calling players like him and Davies into camps to bring him into the fold, showing confidence in him, and letting him build a bond with some of the other MNT players. That would make his decision tougher should he have other offers. You can still aim for results and also integrate youth when you take a 23-man squad to a game that doesn't require nearly that many. The risk/reward seems like a no-brainer.

Edited by kohanz

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On 16-9-2016 at 6:23 PM, BCM said:

With all due respect to the player and your position, just what has Tabla accomplished as a professional? 

He has shown that he has far more quality already than Ricketts and there is still a lot more potential that can be brought out. Playing Ricketts is pulling on a dead horse.

 

On 17-9-2016 at 0:58 AM, Big_M said:

A 17 year old usl player shouldn't be anywhere near the senior national team. Focus on development and making it to a higher level. The more pressure and expectations in this environment and at this age the more chances of being a bust. There are also more interesting players his age or younger: Davies, Millar...

Here is exactly what I was saying in my previous post. You're only looking at age and not at quality. Tabla is superior to Ricketts as is Tomori to any Canadian defender. 

Age is only a number. Christian Pulisic is also a wonderful talent who's already been capped almost 10 times at age 17 and he's playing for a US team who have a lot more quality and strength in depth. Klinsmann believes in him and makes him feel important. 

On 16-9-2016 at 5:35 PM, El Hombre said:

I stopped reading after that.  No use continuing the discussion.

How often have you seen Tomori play?

I've seen Tomori dominate in the UEFA Youth Champions League, with Canada U20 where he was the leader in beating England U20 at their patch while playing against a strong England side where he hardly gave Marcus Rashford a chance. Tomori also did well at the recent Euro U19 Championships.

You really want Henry ahead of him? Henry who got a move to Europe thanks to some great agent work with some shady business via Cyprus. The guy can hardly get a game which was always going to be the case because he can't cut it at that level. He could hardly get a game at TFC. He's been laughable in the Can MNT as well with his poor performances.

Tomori is going to be a very very good player but if you don't recognize quality and talent and look at irrelevant things it's hard to have a discussion.

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1 hour ago, SCF08 said:

He has shown that he has far more quality already than Ricketts and there is still a lot more potential that can be brought out. Playing Ricketts is pulling on a dead horse.

 

Here is exactly what I was saying in my previous post. You're only looking at age and not at quality. Tabla is superior to Ricketts as is Tomori to any Canadian defender. 

Age is only a number. Christian Pulisic is also a wonderful talent who's already been capped almost 10 times at age 17 and he's playing for a US team who have a lot more quality and strength in depth. Klinsmann believes in him and makes him feel important. 

How often have you seen Tomori play?

I've seen Tomori dominate in the UEFA Youth Champions League, with Canada U20 where he was the leader in beating England U20 at their patch while playing against a strong England side where he hardly gave Marcus Rashford a chance. Tomori also did well at the recent Euro U19 Championships.

You really want Henry ahead of him? Henry who got a move to Europe thanks to some great agent work with some shady business via Cyprus. The guy can hardly get a game which was always going to be the case because he can't cut it at that level. He could hardly get a game at TFC. He's been laughable in the Can MNT as well with his poor performances.

Tomori is going to be a very very good player but if you don't recognize quality and talent and look at irrelevant things it's hard to have a discussion.

I figured someone was going to bring up some of the young US players that have been capped - Green is another. 

The difference is very clear here, it's where they have been playing. Montreal FC is a far cry from Bayern Munich and Dortmund, I'm sure even you would agree. So please don't try to compare them as equals. 

Edited by BCM

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On September 15, 2016 at 9:00 AM, SCF08 said:

The same people who said that not calling Tomori for the last WCQ matches was a good choice are the same that are saying that Tabla shoudln't be called because he's only a youth player.

If you cannot judge a players quality and/or potential it's very hard to have a proper discussion. Both Tomori and Tabla are already superior to a lot of players who're currently called into the MNT let alone what they'll achieve in the future. 

I've said it before and will say it again. Not calling these players for the WCQ was a huge mistake. What's the point in having Ricketts, Jackson, Dixon in the team or Hainault, Jakovic when you can have these guys? These guys are going to be proper players and Canada didn't have the balls to give them the trust, support and confidence of playing them in WCQ instead of picking players who add nothing now nor in the future because they're simply not good enough.

To me Tabla clearly has not done enough to be on the Senior National team. I would still be ok with calling him though because we are a poor squad with little depth so a cynical cap-tie like this is worth it if there's a chance he turns into a valuable piece.

we called up Dixon,Ouimette and some others who also have no business being on a serious national team - what's one more if there's also potential upside?

 

Tomori is a different story - hes certainly good enough to be called but I doubt he would have accepted as he was certainly in contact with the English association at that point

Edited by Floortom

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3 hours ago, SCF08 said:

He has shown that he has far more quality already than Ricketts and there is still a lot more potential that can be brought out. Playing Ricketts is pulling on a dead horse.

 

Here is exactly what I was saying in my previous post. You're only looking at age and not at quality. Tabla is superior to Ricketts as is Tomori to any Canadian defender. 

What are you basing your belief that Tabla is better than Ricketts on? His USL performances and 1 friendly? If Tabla was as good as you say he is he should have been givin a chance by the Impact already in regular season play if shitty-ol Ricketts  can make the bench (and occasionally start) on the 1st place team in the Eastern Conference.

Edited by canta15

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I'm not against cap tying two or three young guys with the gold cup, and if Tabla is on that list so be it. However, I do have to chime in and agree with those backing Ricketts over Tabla as senior team roster spot worthy. What is the assessment of Tabla based on? Half a USL season? A friendly? Some youth tournaments? If those are markers for sure fired talent than Boakai, Gala, and Bustos would be leading midfield

Ricketts might have had a lower ceiling than Tabla, but he actually hit it. He's turned skeptics into believers by turning heads in a league Tabla hasn't broken into (including myself, I think he is a valuable sub for us) 

Guys like Tomori and Davies are in another category, they are contributing and forcing their way into senior sides. Tabla hasn't done that. He's a good prospect, but he hasn't proven that he's anymore valuable on the field than Ricketts. 

Still take him, IF he says yes, and see how he does, but don't proclaim him a starter

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On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 5:01 AM, rob.notenboom said:

Groundhog Day meets the hype train.

This quote from @rob.notenboomdeserves another mention. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but no team in Norway, Turkey or even Romania (or MLS) has come in for our young Maradona...  

But yeah, Tabla is clearly the more accomplished and better player, somehow?????

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3 minutes ago, BCM said:

This quote from @rob.notenboomdeserves another mention. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but no team in Norway, Turkey or even Romania (or MLS) has come in for our young Maradona...  

But yeah, Tabla is clearly the more accomplished and better player, somehow?????

Not that i agree with SCF08, but no team from any of those countries could come in for Tabla because he is under the age of 18. Rumours are that some EPL clubs like Chelsea are interested in signing him when he turns 18 next March.

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@jpg75fair point, except for two MLS squads I guess. 

Unless he has a Euro passport I can't see how it's possible for an English team could acquire him. Perhaps the appeals board will be wowed by the Roma exhibition. 

Edit - does Pulisic have a German passport or did family move there for non - footballing purposes? 

Edited by BCM

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I'm not trying to downplay his potential. He's a damn fine prospect. He's played well for our youth team - which is where the English scouts saw him (and who thinks it was for the first team?). I think he has a long way to go, and I'm not opposed to integrating him into the team for the next meaningful matches in a few years provided he keeps developing. But caps should mean something and it's embarrassing that we often have players with more caps than first tier club matches. 

As advanced as Ricketts at this stage he's not - which is the debate. 

Edited by BCM

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37 minutes ago, BCM said:

@jpg75fair point, except for two MLS squads I guess. 

Unless he has a Euro passport I can't see how it's possible for an English team could acquire him. Perhaps the appeals board will be wowed by the Roma exhibition. 

Edit - does Pulisic have a German passport or did family move there for non - footballing purposes? 

Tabla is apparently not signing an MLS contract so that they won't interfere with his signing abroad. Not sure if he'll get to sign in England, but that's the rumour(s).

Pulisic acquired a Croatian passport to sign in Germany.

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10 hours ago, canta15 said:

What are you basing your belief that Tabla is better than Ricketts on? His USL performances and 1 friendly? If Tabla was as good as you say he is he should have been givin a chance by the Impact already in regular season play if shitty-ol Ricketts  can make the bench (and occasionally start) on the 1st place team in the Eastern Conference.

I'm basing the Tabla is better than Ricketts statement on watching many matches from both guys and just analyzing their footballing ability. Can you or anyone else please mention to me why Ricketts is better than Tabla? I've only seen non-arguments thus far looking at age, experience, level of team they play, amount of goals scored in MLS or Can MNT in etc. No one has talked about footballing ability which is what actually determines what makes a good footballer.

Has it also ever occured to you that Tabla might not want to sign a contract with the Impact so that he can transfer to Europe more easily? Many good European clubs are in contact with his agents and trying to invite him over on trial once the USL season has ended.

You can compare his situation to that of Jordan Morris. He was also capped by the US long before he got to play in MLS because he wanted to observe his chances in Europe first.

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Level of play is not a non-argument, especially within the same pyramid. Ricketts is currently doing well at a higher level.

That says nothing about Tabla's potential, but you're asking us to believe your eyeball test on Tabla against weak opposition to establish your claim that Tabla is currently superior to Ricketts, which is more or less the same as "I am right because I know what I am talking about." That is a non-argument 

Again, I am in favour of cap tying high potential kids, I'm just not in favour of throwing long serving players under the bus for new hotness.

Tabla has had access to development resources that Ricketts couldn't have imagined, I don't think it is a stretch to assume what passes as a talented Canada-based prospect in 2016 has a much higher ceiling than what passed for that in 2008. However, until Tabla outperforms Ricketts at a comparable level, assertions that he is already better are suspect 

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The whole debate over whether Tabla is better than Ricketts right now is a red herring. It's about what the downsides are to calling Tabla into the senior team to bring him into the fold and cultivate some allegiance (not necessarily to cap tie him yet). If you call him instead of a Jamar Dixon, for example, why does that upset people so much? There is a 0% chance that a guy like Dixon or Ricketts are difference-makers for this program in the future, but some number > 0% that someone like Tabla/Tomori/Davies are. I'd rather get them more used to wearing Canada red, having them playing together and getting the feeling of building something, than making them "earn" their call-up as if we are some hallowed footballing nation that demands respect.

Also, re: Pulisic and Green. Yes, you can't compare them to Tabla (yet), but that's not a valid comparison because the quality of the US squad is so much greater than ours. Pulisic and Green are to the USA what Tabla or Davies or Tomori are to Canada 

Edited by kohanz

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14 minutes ago, kohanz said:

The whole debate over whether Tabla is better than Ricketts right now is a red herring. It's about what the downsides are to calling Tabla into the senior team to bring him into the fold and cultivate some allegiance (not necessarily to cap tie him yet). If you call him instead of a Jamar Dixon, for example, why does that upset people so much? There is a 0% chance that a guy like Dixon or Ricketts are difference-makers for this program in the future, but some number > 0% that someone like Tabla/Tomori/Davies are. I'd rather get them more used to wearing Canada red, having them playing together and getting the feeling of building something, than making them "earn" their call-up as if we are some hallowed footballing nation that demands respect.

Also, re: Pulisic and Green. Yes, you can't compare them to Tabla (yet), but that's not a valid comparison because the quality of the US squad is so much greater than ours. Pulisic and Green are to the USA what Tabla or Davies or Tomori are to Canada 

I don't think there are people saying not to call him or cap him just a discussion on who is a better player at this moment. Call him and cap him I say. If Tomori will come, call him and cap him too. If Davies has his passport, call him and cap him!

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4 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

I don't think there are people saying not to call him or cap him just a discussion on who is a better player at this moment. Call him and cap him I say. If Tomori will come, call him and cap him too. If Davies has his passport, call him and cap him!

I don't really understand the point of the Ricketts comparison and debate. One is a past-his-prime journeyman who has made the most of his athleticism combined with mediocre skill, and one is a young and up and coming talent early in his development with a very high ceiling. The only point I would see to comparing the two is if we were in a "must win now" situation and that the decision between the affected that. We're clearly not. I think most posters on this board would bet on Tabla to surpass Ricketts' ceiling at some point. It's just a matter of when (if it hasn't already happened).

Edited by kohanz

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