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Ben McKendry

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Was wondering what happened to this guy after FC Edmonton  Exactly the type CPL should be supporting - still young but already with some pro experience, not ready for MLS yet but good potential.  Makes me wonder when another Ben is going to surface.  Has anyone heard where Ben Fisk is playing this year?

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8 minutes ago, socceronly said:

That's funny, I registered that domain years ago.  It's renewal just came up today.

If anyone wants to make a site out of that let me know

How much do I owe you?

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4 hours ago, badname22 said:

Surely CPL would pay more

I happen to believe they would pay more in CPL. I doubt that his contract is worth more than 35 thousand euros, or 40, a season. 

Some players opt for a lesser salary structure in Europe because the speculative nature of the tiers allows for a bigger windfall if things go well. For example, they play top flight Goteborg in a few weeks in the Cup. It is a bet on being noticed and moving up.

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Sweden pays very well, in general. Assuming he gets a place to live and food without pay, he'll probably end up with more cash than if he would playing in CPL. And I don't want to swing the semi-pro discussion again, but they have cash for one or two foreigners in that division. 

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2 hours ago, shamrock said:

Sweden pays very well, in general. Assuming he gets a place to live and food without pay, he'll probably end up with more cash than if he would playing in CPL. And I don't want to swing the semi-pro discussion again, but they have cash for one or two foreigners in that division. 

I'm not sure I agree - the average wage in the Allsvenskan is a little under EUR90,000. I would be surprised if the third tier (Division I) would pay a relatively unproven foreigner more than 20-25k, max. That's the high end. Yes, he will get shared accommodation and some meals provided, but he'll also be going out and spending in an insanely expensive country and pay for the privilege of living in a high tax jurisdiction. All up, I can't see how he'd end up with more cash in hand than staying at home to play.

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6 hours ago, BCM said:

I'm not sure I agree - the average wage in the Allsvenskan is a little under EUR90,000. I would be surprised if the third tier (Division I) would pay a relatively unproven foreigner more than 20-25k, max. That's the high end. Yes, he will get shared accommodation and some meals provided, but he'll also be going out and spending in an insanely expensive country and pay for the privilege of living in a high tax jurisdiction. All up, I can't see how he'd end up with more cash in hand than staying at home to play.

First I think it will be more than 25k. They probably only pay a few players, maybe they even got some sponsors who'll pay them directly. 

Secondly that was my point: he doesn't have to pay a lot in that insanely expensive country, living as a soccer pro. Most of his expenses will be covered. Or do you think he'll booze up every weekend? Or smoke 30 dollar packs of cigarettes?

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45 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Maybe he prioritized other things ahead of money? Like the experience of living abroad?

A higher ceiling is a big one too. Keeping the European dream alive isn't easy, and it's impossible to know how European clubs will rate the CPL in these first few years; but playing Division 1 in Sweden can be a good route into the Superettan and other bigger Scandinavian leagues.

 

Frankly, whether xyz Canadian player with pro experience decides to play in the CPL or not is neither here nor there. It just means other younger or less experienced Canadian players will get a bit more professional playing time, which is arguably better anyway.

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22 hours ago, shamrock said:

First I think it will be more than 25k. They probably only pay a few players, maybe they even got some sponsors who'll pay them directly. 

Secondly that was my point: he doesn't have to pay a lot in that insanely expensive country, living as a soccer pro. Most of his expenses will be covered. Or do you think he'll booze up every weekend? Or smoke 30 dollar packs of cigarettes?

You grossly overestimate the amount of money and sponsorship floating around the third tier of Swedish football. I maintain EUR25k is max, and very few in the league would be getting this amount. For comparison, the average salary in the English League 2 - a more more professional and higher standard than the Swedish Third Tier - is slightly more than GBP40,000.

On the second point, nah, footballers have never been the type to go out on the town...more known for forming reading clubs and knitting groups. More seriously, I get your point - which is why I said he may take home/net close to what he would in the CPL. But I suspect Ben is there for the experience and the chance to move up the food chain, and not for the money. Forgo a little now for the opportunity to earn more later.

Edited by BCM

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Honestly, I don't even believe your 90k figure, but how you get to 25k is beyond me. Frankly, you're pulling that number out of your ass. 

And then it is not like the guys in CPL are doing so well. If you don't live with your parents you're gonna have a hard time living in Canada on an average CPL salary.

We've seen moves like this before, second tier Finland to third tier Sweden. There won't be a lot difference in pay. 

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1 hour ago, shamrock said:

Honestly, I don't even believe your 90k figure, but how you get to 25k is beyond me. Frankly, you're pulling that number out of your ass. 

And then it is not like the guys in CPL are doing so well. If you don't live with your parents you're gonna have a hard time living in Canada on an average CPL salary.

We've seen moves like this before, second tier Finland to third tier Sweden. There won't be a lot difference in pay. 

It's not hard to find the 90k figure online, from multiple sources. English league salaries are very easy to find online as BBC publishes them every year. It's a little more difficult, but possible, to find some attendance figures and more info on the continental lower leagues which indicate revenue sources. Attendance and revenue fall far short of USL, and Ben's team especially so. And then there's personal knowledge from having lived and played in Sweden (admittedly not recently).

So what's your basis for assuming the third tier of Sweden (mainly part-timers, mind you, with stadiums capacity of 1,000) pays on par with (fully professional) league 2 of England? Sorry mate, no matter how much you wish it to be true it simply isn't. 

On CPL - for the lower tier guys, agree. The same is true for the 3rd tier of Sweden, I assure you. I would have to assume a lot of younger the CPL guys will share accommodation, as will the Ben in the accommodation provided.

 

Edit: I'll save you time, here's the document on football salaries. Page 19 for Sweden. Feel free to apologise for that "ass" comment, mate. https://www.globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS 2018.pdf

There's also a good scholarly article out there showing the decline of pay in the Scandinavian leagues beginning with global financial crisis in 2008 and starting again 2013 for some reason. It's more stark in Norway (around 15-20% if I recall), but pretty evident in Sweden.

Edited by BCM

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On 2/8/2019 at 9:34 AM, BCM said:

- the average wage in the Allsvenskan is a little under EUR90,000.

In your PDF it says 114.675. So you were wrong to begin with, let alone the mysterious jump to 25k. 

You haven't got a single clue about what's in Ben McKendries' contract and neither do I. We only know he chose to play in the Swedish third tier over a CPL contract. So there's that. 

And he won't be on the lower end of the team he signed for. He'll be at the high end, maybe even the highest paid player of yet team. Which was my point to begin with. 

It's getting tiresome, tell me where you got that 25k figure or stop embarrassing yourself. 

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1 hour ago, shamrock said:

In your PDF it says 114.675. So you were wrong to begin with, let alone the mysterious jump to 25k. 

You haven't got a single clue about what's in Ben McKendries' contract and neither do I. We only know he chose to play in the Swedish third tier over a CPL contract. So there's that. 

And he won't be on the lower end of the team he signed for. He'll be at the high end, maybe even the highest paid player of yet team. Which was my point to begin with. 

It's getting tiresome, tell me where you got that 25k figure or stop embarrassing yourself. 

It is still a reasonable guess. I was guessing 35-40k euros, tops. 

Can we stop citing attendance, it is not the most relevant factor in income anymore for football teams. Sponsors, tv rights, do much more. For example, in Sweden they do Cup group rounds, like in Turkey, and they play Goteborg this week, so that is televised, and they get a cut. I bet it is worth more than gate from 3-4 home matches.

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If I was a player good enough to play professionally I would absolutely spend a couple years playing abroad. Regardless of the circumstances. My buddy played like 4th division in Poland years ago and to this day talks about the fun he had. I cant really share the stories here. Its all good people, the CPL isnt going anywhere.. its here forever 

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2 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

If I was a player good enough to play professionally I would absolutely spend a couple years playing abroad. Regardless of the circumstances. My buddy played like 4th division in Poland years ago and to this day talks about the fun he had. I cant really share the stories here. Its all good people, the CPL isnt going anywhere.. its here forever 

That's all well and good, but I think it's fair to hope for our top players to strive for more than an experience abroad. I don't think we're as laissez-faire with our athletes in other sports.

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I'm glad no one but my parents were as critical and speculative about my early 20's work experience.  "F&ck you dad!!  I am going backpacking and I'll look for a job once I FIND MYSELF"

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7 hours ago, shamrock said:

In your PDF it says 114.675. So you were wrong to begin with, let alone the mysterious jump to 25k. 

You haven't got a single clue about what's in Ben McKendries' contract and neither do I. We only know he chose to play in the Swedish third tier over a CPL contract. So there's that. 

And he won't be on the lower end of the team he signed for. He'll be at the high end, maybe even the highest paid player of yet team. Which was my point to begin with. 

It's getting tiresome, tell me where you got that 25k figure or stop embarrassing yourself. 

Haha, dude it says £87k.pretty clear my EUR there was a typo. You really think there's a big difference between 90 and 115? Of course not. it's basically the same, and it's not very high. Well below Denmark, for example. And you're talking two divisions down. And genius without a clue, at current exchange rate GBP90k is just EUR102,800. So the gap between what I stated in EUR and GBP is really very small indeed.

I also know that Swedish salaries have dropped and are at 2008-09 levels - I'll dig out the peer reviewed scholarly journal article stating this is you want - and know for a fact that €25k is a higher amount paid to anyone on a team promoted to the third tier around 2006, and now in the second division. So the €25k is an educated guess, not pulled out of thin air.

Again mate, tell me why you think third tier Sweden pays anywhere remotely like League II England? That's what you're essentially saying, and that is "embarrassing" you, to use your language. No reasonable person would assume this to be the case. Its laughable.

Since you're only into "what we know", can you prove he chose Sweden over the CPL? It's a good assumption, but one you can't prove. Just like my figure for Ben, buddy. Feel free to provide a link to "prove" otherwise. You can't pick and choose when to accept educated or reasonable assumptions and when not.

Edited by BCM

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5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is still a reasonable guess. I was guessing 35-40k euros, tops. 

Can we stop citing attendance, it is not the most relevant factor in income anymore for football teams. Sponsors, tv rights, do much more. For example, in Sweden they do Cup group rounds, like in Turkey, and they play Goteborg this week, so that is televised, and they get a cut. I bet it is worth more than gate from 3-4 home matches.

Thanks mate. I'm guessing  casual observers like @shamrock would also have thought guys like Piette were on €60k+ while in Europe (in better leagues).

I'm just not sure there's a lot of money floating around to provide that much additional revenue. It's really dried up post global financial crisis and again since 2013, it seems. There's some lower tier teams with good followings and steady membership (they are essentially community clubs and run several sports), but Ben's team is not one of them. The team just brought over a handful of Americans, and if all are paid €40k+ the numbers (plus accommodation and some meals) just won't work (incidentally, I'd think the HK born lad would be the highest paid).

His team is small, but did just hire a 32 year old American as a coach who's keen on North Americans. So hopefully he can capitalise on this move and make it work for him. He's getting a bit old to be a prospect but there still could be significant growth to his game. I always thought he do more, and this is an opportunity. That's more important than whether he's making €25k or €50k.

Edited by BCM

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39 minutes ago, BCM said:

Thanks mate. I'm guessing  casual observers like @shamrock would also have thought guys like Piette were on €60k+ while in Europe (in better leagues).

Piette was on one of the weakest teams in Spanish 2B, in terms of fan base, social media, I once read of 80 teams in 4 divisions Izarra had the 4th least followers. The stadium is small, they drew just over a thousand to games, and in pretty poor condition (the town though, Estella, is cozy and very nice).

He lived in a condo with a few other players. I could imagine was making around 3000 euros a month, I can't imagine it was much more. It could have been 2500. I am saying this as he was coming from Deportivo where the salaries for the B team players would be higher, otherwise the salary structure on that team would have been one of the lowest in the whole Spain 3rd tier.

So that would give you between 45 and 50k Canadian, and the taxes are lower in Spain, so is the cost of living. 

Before the financial crisis, when there were generous sponsors, and perhaps money was being laundered more liberally, I think salaries were 30% higher in Spain 2B.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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