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deschamp86

Canadian Nationalization Countdown

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@Joe - nonsense. Regardless whether you agree with it or not, or whether I agree with it or not. Every country is doing it (except England it seems) so Canada must also. Look at our nearest neighbours.......USA. If we can, we should/must.
So if the Germans start blood doping and shooting players full of roids we should do that too?

Lamest excuse in the world "everyone else is doing it". Isn't that one of those things you're supposed to learn in the sandbox?

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So if the Germans start blood doping and shooting players full of roids we should do that too?

If you don't get caught and it helps you win, why not?

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Guest Brethers

I thought it was pretty obvious sarcasm. I think it seems a sad reality of the game that naturalisation has a role in national football for "lesser" countries, and if we didn't use anything within our power to better ourselves as a nation then we're going to continue lagging behind. If a young Canadian sees a player naturalised into the team and thinks well thats it, my international career is over then I would say does he have the mindset to be playing professional football? And should he be with Canada if he doesnt want to have to graft hard to get into the team. Naturalisng a good foreigner and having them play in your team to improve your standing on a national level will help you in the future. Youngsters will be more keen to play the game as it will be more popular, and more commercial. Then better players with options will opt for Canada as we're not the joke of national football anymore. Then we can stop looking at having to naturalise

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Maybe someone can answer me this. If countries can cherry pick players and players can play for essentially the "highest bidder" what exactly is the point of international competition? It's no different than the Champion's League.

I would be embarrassed to be a team like Jamaica that swipes players from England who've never been in Jamaica. I'd be embarrassed if I lived in the birthplace of soccer and had to put a guy like the Whore on my team. What, England can't develop their own players anymore?

What's the point of playing?

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Well no one is saying that you'd have a team full of mercenaries, and I want players who want to play for Canada and represent us because they love the country. I'm intrigued to know your stance on Borjan. And did Jackson only gain citizenship because he was raised here for 5 or 6 years? Or did he have some Canadian lineage before that? I'm unsure. The thing about players who have that lineage with nother country is that they could feel strongly towards it. I am part Italian and embrace it, I cheer for Italy (not as much as Canada, would always choose us over Italy any day) and I have a large Italian part of my family. If a player has these feelings and is brought up to be proud of their roots (like many English born Jamaicans are) then why should they ignore this heritage they have? And it's not like England are nicking everyone's players

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Please tell me you're kidding.

Of course I am. But while doping and such is illegal and punishable by law, naturalizing foreign-born players isn't, at least to my knowledge.

I'm not a fan of doing it for marginal guys. But to grab a keeper like Frei for the 2018 cycle? I'd do it in a second.

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This is garbage. Sends a bad message to youth players, doesn't help development of new players, is a short term "solution" and supports [highlight] ridiculous FIFA eligibility rules that no other sane sport would follow. [/highlight] You wanna play you gotta be a citizen. Even JDG2 did at least that much for Holland.

You should check out the eligibility rules of other sports, they are fairly relaxed. ex. Olympics.

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I thought it was pretty obvious sarcasm. I think it seems a sad reality of the game that naturalisation has a role in national football for "lesser" countries, and if we didn't use anything within our power to better ourselves as a nation then we're going to continue lagging behind. If a young Canadian sees a player naturalised into the team and thinks well thats it, my international career is over then I would say does he have the mindset to be playing professional football? And should he be with Canada if he doesnt want to have to graft hard to get into the team. Naturalisng a good foreigner and having them play in your team to improve your standing on a national level will help you in the future. Youngsters will be more keen to play the game as it will be more popular, and more commercial. Then better players with options will opt for Canada as we're not the joke of national football anymore. Then we can stop looking at having to naturalise

Agree with this post, I'd love to keep all of the guys who are eligible born and raised in Canada but some of them are'nt going to want to play for Canada, it sucks but I'd rather have someone from Serbia who is eligible and wants to play for Canada then someone who does'nt. We huff and we puff and we get annoyed with losing players, but the system is what the system is we can either get with the program and add to our program and erase some of the losses going the other way or we can continue to bitch and get our asses kicked.

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So... no one who's taking this discussion seriously will be up in arms the next time a young Canadian-born player decides to represent the country where he's been living and playing for a few years, right?

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Its going to happen regardless. We might as well get with the times. Unfortunately with only three MLS teams and the amount of turnover there will be in each team, we are going to lose a lot more players than we gain.

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It is unfortunate guys but this is International Football. Learn to play the game or be played. Meaning, do whatever you can do have some success (just like every other freakin' country does). People mention "short term solution!", are you kidding? I will take whatever we can get. We have had little to NO success as a football nation. We need to stop being so stereotypically 'Canadian' when it comes to the worlds game. There is no award or championship at the World Cup of Ethics regarding football. Sad, but true.

Edited by intim0dating

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It is unfortunate guys but this is International Football. Learn to play the game or be played. Meaning, do whatever you can do have some success (just like every other freakin' country does). People mention "short term solution!", are you kidding? I will take whatever we can get. We have had little to NO success as a football nation. We need to stop being so stereotypically 'Canadian' when it comes to the worlds game.
So, let's steal players and use tactics like gamesmanship and simulation which are so greasy they had to be given politically correct names. If you want a team without ethics rolling around on the ground you can have it. I won't be supporting any girly men. I'd rather lose with honour than cheat to win. There are no shortcuts.

With the three MLS teams operating there will soon be quantity, from that will come quality, in a few. Add some grit and mental toughness which we seemed to have lost with this latest NT incarnation and we'll be alright.

And if we were a little more stereotypically 'Canadian' we might win a few games instead of the results the present crop of prima donnas are putting up.

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Lets just field a team of lumberjacks, who won't flinch after a gun shot but won't win for ****, great! Look no one said cheat, naturalizing players 100% is not cheating and I'm very proud our players don't roll around on the ground as well. If your not ok with naturalizing talent then you have the right to voice your opinion, but even the top countries in the world do it and we are far from that especially when you consider our top talent gets poached all the time.

Do you think naturalizing players has hurt or helped the US program?

Edited by villus

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Do you think developing players through MLS has hurt or helped the US program?

Of course it has helped, naturalizing players and developing players through MLS are not mutually exclusive. In fact I think anything that improves the talent pool and raises the standards and gives us the best chance of performing on the field will improve the program going forward. Do you think players will just quit wanting to play in the MLS or for Canada? More likely the better product we put on the field the harder players will fight to get into a better team. I'm not condoning we should put all or any of our attention to these players and neglect the players eligible for Canada right now, or not focus our energy on development. If a player is 1 year away from being naturalized and could help our program I'd hope the coaches would just give him a call and inquire, but holding our breath or focusing our attention on these players would be a mistake on that I can agree.

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What is the debate here? If you are legally a Canadian citizen and meet FIFA eligibility, why shouldn't you be able to play for Canada? Because you were born somewhere else? That's the the most un-Canadian thing I've ever heard.

I agree 100%.

Joe, I am genuinely interested to know your stance on Borjan. Do you disagree with him playing for us? Or because of the love and passion he has shown to represent us do you think that he has earned it? Would you be opposed to all naturalised players playing, or would you allow some through if they showed the same commitment?

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^Is that a dictate from President Hugo "USA gave me cancer" Chavez?

Chavez is President of Venezuela and not Colombia... but even in the world of ignorance the joke makes no sense: Colombia's national team probably does not draw on MLS players because they are not good enough. As any national team would decide (beside personal issues between players and managers). Furthermore, Colombia has been trying to rebuild its national program by building from players close to home: meaning their own national league. There has been a strong mutual benefit between the national team and the league teams.

South America is not some nebulous region that only Fox News snippets reveal, it is worth paying attention to. Many countries have similar size population to Canada (Colombia, Venezuela, and Argentina) and in their rises and falls reveal something about how to manage a national soccer team. Others, much smaller, countries such as Ecuador, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay have had significant international success in recent years. Instead of being ignorant, it could be worth while being interested in how these countries manage to produce great soccer players. It is not just 'soccer is in their blood' (certainly not Venezuela's, whose national sport is baseball) - it is the infrastructure and education that lies behind the 'successes'.

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You are right Joe, we need to follow hockey Canada's example and only play true born and bred proud Canadians like Petr Nedved, who represented Canada internationally but was born in Czechoslovakia, grew up in Czechoslovakia, and has moved back "home" to finish his career in the Czech Republic.

The only way to keep more Canadians is by winning. It is a sad but true fact, and to to do so we need the best available players at our disposal playing for us. When we have all of our best, eligible players actually representing our MNT, we can then become choosy about how Canadian someone is and if they should be picked by our MNT boss.

I too would like to hear what Joe's opinion of Hume, Jackson, Borjan, etc. are. These lads are proud to represent Canada, though none were born on our shores.

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What is the debate here? If you are legally a Canadian citizen and meet FIFA eligibility, why shouldn't you be able to play for Canada? Because you were born somewhere else? That's the the most un-Canadian thing I've ever heard.

Bang on, I have always liked the fact that Canada is one of the only countries on the planet where being a nationalist doesn't make you a racist.

As for people not being 'Canadian enough' either of my parents would likely disagree with that as they both immigrated here. How many generations you been here? 2? 3? At what point are you 'Canadian'?

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You are right Joe, we need to follow hockey Canada's example and only play true born and bred proud Canadians like Petr Nedved, who represented Canada internationally but was born in Czechoslovakia, grew up in Czechoslovakia, and has moved back "home" to finish his career in the Czech Republic. .

Highly different situation re: Nedved, he defected from a communist country and as such had no oppertunities to play for Czechoslovakia. He lost his citizenship and could only play for Canada.

Edited by finchster

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^ It is only different bc you have chosen to rationalise it is different. He was a new Canadian who had no connection to Canada aside from his living and playing in Canada at that time.

Just to be clear, I have no issue with his or any other Canadian that has represented Canada (at least none that I am aware of at this time). My point was to say that Joe (and anyone else who thinks the same way) must have no one to support if he only wants born and raised Canadians on any team he supports.

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