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Saviola7

How much would you pay for a Voyageurs memership cost?

How much would you pay for a Voyageurs memership?  

64 members have voted

  1. 1. How much would you pay for a Voyageurs memership?

    • $20/yr
    • $10/yr
    • $5/yr
    • I wouldn't pay anything, but I don't mind having a two tiered membership system
    • I'm opposed to any sort of fee structure!


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Only $10 at the moment, as I don't think we'd have nearly as much to worry about as the club teams will. None of our merch is particularly expensive to produce, the new site has already been created and will really only require maintenance at this point, and the cost of tickets is usually the least expensive concern when going to a Nats away game. Plus, we're trying to grow this group as much as possible, ride the current growth wave we're experiencing, so I think the cheaper the better. I think it'll encourage people to pay for the membership.

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Only $10 at the moment, as I don't think we'd have nearly as much to worry about as the club teams will. None of our merch is particularly expensive to produce, the new site has already been created and will really only require maintenance at this point, and the cost of tickets is usually the least expensive concern when going to a Nats away game. Plus, we're trying to grow this group as much as possible, ride the current growth wave we're experiencing, so I think the cheaper the better. I think it'll encourage people to pay for the membership.

At $10, though, our margins are awfully small.

I don't know how much a scarf costs to make if we do a run of a hundred or so, but surely it's more than $5 or $6. And I don't think we can count on a tonne of numbers - I said fifty in the other thread at $20 each.

Let's say that seventy people sign up at $10 each, and let's say we make $4 margin on the goodies we send out (way too high, surely; don't forget the cost of shipping across the damned country). That's $210 into the Voyageurs bank account. $210! That probably wouldn't even pay for the web hosting for a year. That wouldn't have covered the dozen-odd tickets we needed in Los Angeles. Tickets aren't the largest expense in going to a game, but they are one of the largest logistical challenges - if you don't buy them all at once, you can't get people together and a "section" going.

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I'd pay whatever it takes to join the Voyageurs (within a reasonable price range), but until there can be clear benefits set out I'm opposed to anything like this.

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Hmm... true. I'm just wondering what the perception of value for a membership is like, and how much it'd change depending on what is offered with the purchase of a membership.

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I'd pay whatever it takes to join the Voyageurs (within a reasonable price range), but until there can be clear benefits set out I'm opposed to anything like this.

This.

I'd rather pay an annual donation than a straight-up membership, as you don't need to focus on benefits and donations can be more-or-less. Some people might donate $5, others $20.

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A few things:

-An underlying assumption is that any fee structure would be two-tiered since it is clear that there are people on this board who feel strongly that the right to call oneself a 'V' should not cost anything.

-A vote for the first 4 options in my mind is also a vote for governance. You can't collect money without some sort of organisation. A vote for the 5th option makes no comment either way.

-I think that people should vote based on very minimal benefits. If you expect a scarf to be included, subtract the going rate for scarves off your vote since it just confuses things.

-I think that every person who considers themselves a Voyageur should vote in this poll otherwise we really have no idea what we're dealing with.

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I'd pay whatever it takes to join the Voyageurs (within a reasonable price range), but until there can be clear benefits set out I'm opposed to anything like this.

The main thing would probably be first dibs on supporter's section tickets to matches. Which doesn't seem like much now, but could be a big deal later on down the line.

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I'd pay whatever it takes to join the Voyageurs (within a reasonable price range), but until there can be clear benefits set out I'm opposed to anything like this.

Any ideas for benefits beyond the obvious scarf/t-shirt?

I think numbers and geography would prohibit us arranging a discount at a pub or a classic supporter's goodie like that. Purchasing tickets would be a benefit: we'd almost always get a group rate and sometimes be able to duck Ticketmaster charges, so you'd save a little money as well as getting to hang out with us hooligans.

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Guest Ed

I voted against any such fees. Attempts to change my mind welcome. If I want a scarf, I buy it (and have done). If I want a T-shirt, I buy it (and have done).

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Any ideas for benefits beyond the obvious scarf/t-shirt?

I think numbers and geography would prohibit us arranging a discount at a pub or a classic supporter's goodie like that. Purchasing tickets would be a benefit: we'd almost always get a group rate and sometimes be able to duck Ticketmaster charges, so you'd save a little money as well as getting to hang out with us hooligans.

I don't really have any idea for extra benefits. If we could save a significant amount of money on ticket sales that would certainly help me get behind an idea like this. But until we have this info set in stone I'm not getting too excited about anything

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The difference between a group rate and the basic rate for the Los Angeles Gold Cup game came to about $5 a pop. But because of our ad hoc nature we still paid the Ticketmaster charges on top of that. If we avoided Ticketmaster/Admission in the future, it could easily come to $10, $15 a ticket.

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Why would anyone pick $5 or $10 as opposed to $20? If you're willing to pay anything at all, is that $5 or $10 difference really of any significance? Go to a pub, have a few and boom, there's twenty bucks. How can people be willing to do that, but not plunk down twenty bucks in a YEAR to support the Voyageurs?

In fairness, if you're opposed to any fee structure whatsoever, that's a different matter. But if you're willing to pay, 20 bucks in a YEAR is a minimum, not a ceiling.

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At some point, I think that if we're going to do this, we just need to bite the bullet, open up an 'Organization' board, and start ploughing through it. I mean, if now isn't the time, when is the right time?

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I voted against any such fees. Attempts to change my mind welcome. If I want a scarf, I buy it (and have done). If I want a T-shirt, I buy it (and have done).

I agree with this.

I would pay $0. Outside of this message board (which can be paid for through advertising), there is no real benefit to be had.

My club supporters group, which is far, far more active and engages me almost every day of my life, charges nothing to join. It makes money through donations, road trips and the sales of merch, and it functions just fine. There is no reason why this group cannot do the same.

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But U-Sector has to do a lot different things than the Voyageurs. You buy your season ticket in 113 if you're a regular, you pay face value for a ticket from a guy who can't go if you're not. You play a long schedule with road trips to raise money off of. You mostly live in more-or-less the same area. There are, frankly, a lot more of you to drive those donations and merch sales, and while I bet your expenditures are on worthwhile causes like tifo, ours would be on worthwhile causes like trying to sit more-or-less together.

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We can't compare club supporters groups to national supporters groups, it's an apples and oranges case. We really need to benchmark ourselves, at least to some degree, so if anyone knows how things actually, not generally, but actually work in other national supporters groups, we need to hear it to give us at least a bit of a road map. I'm reluctant to move on anything right now without at least some type of road map.

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^^^^ Agreed. I'm not saying that you're wrong not to want to pay Rudi, nor that the U-Sector doesn't offer you much more intereaction and day to day benefits, however it's unfair to compare the Voyageurs to any club supporters group. We all know that. We're all happy as shit right now because we're supposed to have two home games this year, and rightly so. We're also thinnly spread out over the second largest country in the world, not a metropolitan area.

No one ever said it was easy being a Voyageur!!

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In one of those rare instances of agreement with Rudi, I also voted against a fee structure not because I am too cheap to pay it but because I don't think it is necessary and think it will have a negative influence on membership growth. I am also against plans to make a more formal organization or incorporate. There may be a time for measures like these, possibly when we get as large as Sam's Army but I think it is way to early. At the moment we have an informal organization in which people do things when needed on a volunteer basis. Indeed at times when a lot needed to be done like at WCQ many of these people did an awful lot of work often behind the scenes and without recognition but in the majority of cases did a very good job. We are not a dysfunctional organization by any means and are indeed very flexible. I do not see for what purpose we need to raise large sums of money from membership fees nor what we will achieve by incorporating or making a board of directors other than making a lot more work and bureaucracy. Additionally many of the people calling for more structure and fees have not volunteered their services before when needed. Maybe if these people become members of a Board of Directors they will increase their involvement and do a good job or maybe not but count me as sceptical on that front. Personally I think a more formalized structure is just going to create a lot of extra work without achieving anything more than currently and possibly achieving less.

I do not agree with Duane (I know that is no surprise) that our profile in Toronto is down or getting worse. Not sure how he can really compare our profile in Toronto to the past because unlike Rudi, GL or the Keays I don't recall him being a Voyageur for very long (I don't mean that as a criticism but I just don't understand his point of reference). Before TFC we had a small number of Voyageurs in Toronto many of who were also members of what at the time was a U-Sector with a pretty small membership. Since TFC came, U-Sector has increased its membership dramatically and has been joined by the newly formed larger group, RPB, and some smaller supporter groups. Yes many of these guys are club before country but a significant number are open to supporting the national team. I don't see how the situation is getting worse. Five years ago we had maybe 20 or 30 hardcore Voyageurs in Toronto. Now we have 2 or 3 times that number plus thousands of guys in supporters clubs of which at least 50% are open to supporter the national team and attending games. I think for the Haiti WCG game we had somewhere between 100 and 200 guys from Toronto alone come to Montreal while 5 years ago it would have been difficult to get that many Voyageurs together from Toronto for a game in Toronto. Some sort of perceived lack of strength or commitment for us compared to club supporter groups is no justification to change our structure because there is no way to compete with these groups anyway nor should we be trying to. Yes we are less prominent than we were two years ago and the reason for that is that two years ago was WCQ. I have good friends in UM who I see every week and sometimes more often during the season so of course my ties are stronger to UM than they are to a group where the majority of members I haven't met and of those who I have met and become good friends with, I see most of them once a year. That doesn't mean when it is time to do something for the Voyageurs or attend national team games that I won't be fully committed to doing that.

If it came to a vote with some standard of membership such as a certain number of posts and something like 6 months membership I would certainly accept the decision either way. Whether I would continue to participate would depend on what the resulting structure and makeup of the Voyageurs would be. I imagine a lot of members would feel similarly and we certainly could lose a number of members over this. I will always support the Canadian national team but whether I support the Voyageurs depends on what the Voyageurs become. Personally I don't think we are in any way broken so why fix it. We are a very small group of people who informally discuss things on the internet and I doubt membership fees or a formal structure is going to change that very much. The idea that we will suddenly become an effective lobby group with the government or CSA and can sell tickets is pie in the sky. For ticket distribution all we need is an effective code during a presale with Ticketmaster. The CSA will listen to us if we get a lot of people out to matches. They already listen to us far more than they have in the past. We need to remain flexible and informal in my opinion, in fact, I would say that is one of our strongpoints. The time for formal structure and membership may come but we are far too small and have too few events to make it worthwhile at this time.

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That's a great post Grizzly. I think you highlight all of the right points on why it would not be beneficial. Definitely an interesting topic.

I think it's important to bear in mind that the survey is for, and even states, "What WOULD we pay for membership". I for one was initially against it for many of the same reasons, and I haven't really changed my mind that respect. However, I would be willing to fork up the money if we could garuntee certain benefits, the most important one being garunteed group seating for all home games. As it's been stated before, we cannot rely on certain members to always take the huge financial initiative to buy large quantities of tickets for us.

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The reason why I voted for $5 is that it gives us a very strong way of quantifying our membership without scaring too many people away. Right now we can say that we are made up of 200 or so active members (based on posting rates), another 100 (?) or so semi-active members (based on match attendance across the country), and upwards of 1000s of people who have signed up for the message board but have less than 100 posts. I just think it means a lot if we can say "We have X paying members, plus an army of non-paying members". This will help in terms of securing tickets to matches. Sure the CSA works with us now, but I hope in the future when we travel to Gold Cup matches more we can get away section seating too.

I'm in favour of asking people for some sort of commitment.

Edited by Saviola7
grammar

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I agree with this.

I would pay $0. Outside of this message board (which can be paid for through advertising), there is no real benefit to be had.

My club supporters group, which is far, far more active and engages me almost every day of my life, charges nothing to join. It makes money through donations, road trips and the sales of merch, and it functions just fine. There is no reason why this group cannot do the same.

Rudi, what's the difference between a $20 donation or a $20 membership? This shouldn't be about what the Voyageurs can do for you, it's about helping the V's grow.

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