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Marcel De Jong

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1 hour ago, king1010 said:

I am. De guz and ledgerwood looked fine in wcq so far. Honduras made it to the world cup with half a team from their national league which isnt all that great. 

So ya. Nvm starting one nasl player. Strong possibility we start 3. 

De jong started for us in wcq when he was riding the pine in mls and B1. But now if he plays in NASL you arent confident? 

Rather have a player playing than riding pine. More confident in their abilities with the former

its not really a "strong" possibility we start the 3. Ledgerwood might not even make the 23 player cut. I am just disappointed that in the prime of his career he will be playing in the NASL.

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As an aside, I really have to applaud the two NASL teams for drastically helping fill the void that has plagued our player pool in the past - by offering employment and regular playing time to those who fall through the cracks with MLS or in Europe (for whatever reason). Who'd a thunk three years ago that Julian, Marcel and Nik would be playing on these two teams, while still fully involved in the National Team during a qualifying year. If NASL is good enough for these three, there is no (or increasingly little) reason for U-23 players to fade out of professional soccer once they graduate from the U-20 program, as has happened too often in the past. It is awesome to see more/better pro opportunities being offered from these two clubs.

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11 hours ago, canta15 said:

its not really a "strong" possibility we start the 3. Ledgerwood might not even make the 23 player cut. I am just disappointed that in the prime of his career he will be playing in the NASL.

huh? it is a very strong possibility. 

ledgerwood is one of floros favourites. he's not only been in every camp when healthy but has also started or seen significant playing time

don't understand how you can say ledgerwood doesn't make the 23 when he has been a started under floro

Edited by king1010

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29 minutes ago, king1010 said:

huh? it is a very strong possibility. 

ledgerwood is one of floros favourites. he's not only been in every camp when healthy but has also started or seen significant playing time

don't understand how you can say ledgerwood doesn't make the 23 when he has been a started under floro

This is just the typical "NASL isn't quality" opinion. Heard it for years. Got into it on twitter years ago with DeVos who out and out said no NASL player should play for the national team.

Current "for sure" national players:

- De guz

- de Jong (only sticking around in NASL for a few months apparently)

- Ledgerwood (only reason he missed any games was injury) 

 

Maybes:

- Mallen Roberts

 

Looooooooooooooong shots:

- Tyson Farago

- Allan Zebie

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12 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

This is just the typical "NASL isn't quality" opinion. Heard it for years. Got into it on twitter years ago with DeVos who out and out said no NASL player should play for the national team.

I've never understood this argument, particularly when we tie a team made up of a bunch of players from the Salvadoran Primera Division.

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12 hours ago, canta15 said:

its not really a "strong" possibility we start the 3. Ledgerwood might not even make the 23 player cut. I am just disappointed that in the prime of his career he will be playing in the NASL.

Ledgerwood won't make the 23 man roster? Guaranteed he's there. He's been a regular starter at right back when healthy for about 5 years.

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52 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

This is just the typical "NASL isn't quality" opinion. Heard it for years. Got into it on twitter years ago with DeVos who out and out said no NASL player should play for the national team.

Current "for sure" national players:

- De guz

- de Jong (only sticking around in NASL for a few months apparently)

- Ledgerwood (only reason he missed any games was injury) 

 

Maybes:

- Mallen Roberts

 

Looooooooooooooong shots:

- Tyson Farago

- Allan Zebie

Mauro Eustaquio would be on that list, close to a long shot.

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4 hours ago, king1010 said:

huh? it is a very strong possibility. 

ledgerwood is one of floros favourites. he's not only been in every camp when healthy but has also started or seen significant playing time

don't understand how you can say ledgerwood doesn't make the 23 when he has been a started under floro

I think a number of players are better than him as a defending mid. So rb would be his only option. Besides i stated he wasn't a "forsure include". A forsure includes Hoilett, Borjan, Hutchinson, etc. The best players on our teams that forsure won't be excluded. Ledgerwood is a bench player (yes I expect Aird to start over him) and i would not be surprised if he was left out.

Edited by canta15

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2 hours ago, canta15 said:

I think a number of players are better than him as a defending mid. So rb would be his only option. Besides i stated he wasn't a "forsure include". A forsure includes Hoilett, Borjan, Hutchinson, etc. The best players on our teams that forsure won't be excluded. Ledgerwood is a bench player (yes I expect Aird to start over him) and i would not be surprised if he was left out.

expecting Aird to start over a stalwart like Ledgerwood is insane. He's been a workhorse and until his injury was one of the most consistent players for Canada for over a year. Also Floro values defensive ability over offensive ability so there is no chance that he takes the gamble on an unproven offensive minded fullback.

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6 hours ago, canta15 said:

I think a number of players are better than him as a defending mid. So rb would be his only option. Besides i stated he wasn't a "forsure include". A forsure includes Hoilett, Borjan, Hutchinson, etc. The best players on our teams that forsure won't be excluded. Ledgerwood is a bench player (yes I expect Aird to start over him) and i would not be surprised if he was left out.

 

ledgerwood would never play defensice mid. He will get called up to play right back. 

You said he wasnt a strong possibility to be called up. Which is incorrect. Not only is he a strong possibility to be called up, he is a strong possibility to start. 

 

Edited by king1010

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6 hours ago, canta15 said:

I think a number of players are better than him as a defending mid. So rb would be his only option. Besides i stated he wasn't a "forsure include". A forsure includes Hoilett, Borjan, Hutchinson, etc. The best players on our teams that forsure won't be excluded. Ledgerwood is a bench player (yes I expect Aird to start over him) and i would not be surprised if he was left out.

From our current MNT pool of about 50-60 players here is our top 5 in apps;

1. JDG at 86

2. Atiba at 71

3. Lars at 48

4. Tossaint at 47

5. Nik at 46

Then you have Simeon and Andre in the 40s, then it drops to the 30s. To say Nik is not a for sure in the 23 man roster or is not a starter with any kind of certainty is absurd. Especially in a home and home with the best team in our region, with of the most difficult away game conditions possible. You may not rate him but it's clear Floro, and Miller before him, and Hart before him, all do. 

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1 hour ago, king1010 said:

 

ledgerwood would never play defensice mid. He will get called up to play right back. 

You said he wasnt a strong possibility to be called up. Which is incorrect. Not only is he a strong possibility to be called up, he is a strong possibility to start. 

 

Agree to disagree. It depends whether Aird actually starts for the whitecaps when the season starts.

 

 

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3 hours ago, canta15 said:

Agree to disagree. It depends whether Aird actually starts for the whitecaps when the season starts.

Agree to really disagree. No way Floro starts a 21 year old, recently converted winger, with 1 cap, over a national team stalwart, at home, against Mexico, in a WCQ match... just not going to happen. There are 3 VWFC matches in March before the Mexico game. I can't see Floro doing anything other than parking the bus against Mexico and Aird is way down the RB depth chart when it comes to the defensive side of the game. Even if Aird starts all three of those matches and lights it up, I just don't see it.

Edited by A_Gagne

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7 hours ago, A_Gagne said:

Agree to really disagree. No way Floro starts a 21 year old, recently converted winger, with 1 cap, over a national team stalwart, at home, against Mexico, in a WCQ match... just not going to happen. There are 3 VWFC matches in March before the Mexico game. I can't see Floro doing anything other than parking the bus against Mexico and Aird is way down the RB depth chart when it comes to the defensive side of the game. Even if Aird starts all three of those matches and lights it up, I just don't see it.

I don't see Aird starting over Ledgerwood or Ouimette, but anything could happen. Form during training is important, but the first step is for Fraser to get selected for the squad. Against Honduras, he was picked but Ouimette ultimately got the nod (and played well). There was no Nik, but this time things may be different.

On the other hand, last round Adekugbe got selected over the more experienced Morgan. Froese got selected over several other options that have much more experience. If Arid gets the call over Ledgerwood or Ouimette, it wouldn't be the first time a young Whitecap got selected over an older player with more national team experience.

Another thing, just because a RB is offensive-minded doesn't mean he is a poor defender. Has anyone actually watched enough of Arid at RB to confirm he is poor defensively? I have tuned into a few pre-season games and he hasn't exactly looked like a liability. He has much more pace than Ouimette and especially Ledgerwood. His defensive positioning appears to be adequate, too.

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14 hours ago, mserson said:

From our current MNT pool of about 50-60 players here is our top 5 in apps;

1. JDG at 86

2. Atiba at 71

3. Lars at 48

4. Tossaint at 47

5. Nik at 46

Then you have Simeon and Andre in the 40s, then it drops to the 30s. To say Nik is not a for sure in the 23 man roster or is not a starter with any kind of certainty is absurd. Especially in a home and home with the best team in our region, with of the most difficult away game conditions possible. You may not rate him but it's clear Floro, and Miller before him, and Hart before him, all do. 

Do you know why guys like Ledgerwood and Ricketts were rated by the other coaches and have so many caps? Because we had no depth. We are finally getting players committing to the country and playing and starting in good leagues. So, let's use them. I would rather lose trying different guys than keep losing with the same guys we have before. Now is not the time to hang on to a player because he's a nice guy or always made himself available. Hell, I'm a nice guy and would play if called but I shouldn't be called. 

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1 hour ago, Boominbooty said:

Do you know why guys like Ledgerwood and Ricketts were rated by the other coaches and have so many caps? Because we had no depth. We are finally getting players committing to the country and playing and starting in good leagues. So, let's use them. I would rather lose trying different guys than keep losing with the same guys we have before. Now is not the time to hang on to a player because he's a nice guy or always made himself available. Hell, I'm a nice guy and would play if called but I shouldn't be called. 

Soooooo... You'd rather start who at RB? Aird?

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2 hours ago, Boominbooty said:

Do you know why guys like Ledgerwood and Ricketts were rated by the other coaches and have so many caps? Because we had no depth. We are finally getting players committing to the country and playing and starting in good leagues. So, let's use them. I would rather lose trying different guys than keep losing with the same guys we have before. Now is not the time to hang on to a player because he's a nice guy or always made himself available. Hell, I'm a nice guy and would play if called but I shouldn't be called. 

Ledgerwood would start because he is more solid defensively than aird and has more experience in pressure situations in Concacaf. Not because he is a nice guy. 

Edited by king1010

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3 hours ago, Boominbooty said:

Do you know why guys like Ledgerwood and Ricketts were rated by the other coaches and have so many caps? Because we had no depth. We are finally getting players committing to the country and playing and starting in good leagues. So, let's use them. I would rather lose trying different guys than keep losing with the same guys we have before. Now is not the time to hang on to a player because he's a nice guy or always made himself available. Hell, I'm a nice guy and would play if called but I shouldn't be called. 

That's interesting, because I've grown fond of winning.  Given the choice, I choose winning (or at least getting a draw).

Friendly Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 1–0 23px-Flag_of_Guatemala.svg.png Guatemala [show]Fort Lauderdale, Florida, United States
March 30 Friendly Puerto Rico 23px-Flag_of_Puerto_Rico.svg.png 0–3 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Bayamón, Puerto Rico
June 11 2018 World Cup Q Dominica 23px-Flag_of_Dominica.svg.png 0–2 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Roseau, Dominica
June 16 2018 World Cup Q Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 4–0 23px-Flag_of_Dominica.svg.png Dominica [show]Toronto, Ontario, Canada
July 8 2015 Gold Cup El Salvador 23px-Flag_of_El_Salvador.svg.png 0–0 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Carson, California, United States
July 11 2015 Gold Cup Jamaica 23px-Flag_of_Jamaica.svg.png 1–0 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Houston, Texas, United States
July 14 2015 Gold Cup Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 0–0 23px-Flag_of_Costa_Rica.svg.png Costa Rica [show]Toronto, Ontario, Canada
September 4 2018 World Cup Q Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 3–0 23px-Flag_of_Belize.svg.png Belize [show]Toronto, Ontario, Canada
September 8 2018 World Cup Q Belize 23px-Flag_of_Belize.svg.png 1–1 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Belmopan, Belize
October 13 Friendly Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 1–1 23px-Flag_of_Ghana.svg.png Ghana [show]Washington, DC, United States
November 13 2018 World Cup Q Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 1–0 23px-Flag_of_Honduras.svg.png Honduras [show]Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
November 17 2018 World Cup Q El Salvador 23px-Flag_of_El_Salvador.svg.png 0–0 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]San Salvador, El Salvador

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2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

That's interesting, because I've grown fond of winning.  Given the choice, I choose winning (or at least getting a draw).

Friendly Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 1–0 23px-Flag_of_Guatemala.svg.png Guatemala [show]Fort Lauderdale, Florida, United States
March 30 Friendly Puerto Rico 23px-Flag_of_Puerto_Rico.svg.png 0–3 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Bayamón, Puerto Rico
June 11 2018 World Cup Q Dominica 23px-Flag_of_Dominica.svg.png 0–2 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Roseau, Dominica
June 16 2018 World Cup Q Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 4–0 23px-Flag_of_Dominica.svg.png Dominica [show]Toronto, Ontario, Canada
July 8 2015 Gold Cup El Salvador 23px-Flag_of_El_Salvador.svg.png 0–0 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Carson, California, United States
July 11 2015 Gold Cup Jamaica 23px-Flag_of_Jamaica.svg.png 1–0 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Houston, Texas, United States
July 14 2015 Gold Cup Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 0–0 23px-Flag_of_Costa_Rica.svg.png Costa Rica [show]Toronto, Ontario, Canada
September 4 2018 World Cup Q Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 3–0 23px-Flag_of_Belize.svg.png Belize [show]Toronto, Ontario, Canada
September 8 2018 World Cup Q Belize 23px-Flag_of_Belize.svg.png 1–1 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]Belmopan, Belize
October 13 Friendly Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 1–1 23px-Flag_of_Ghana.svg.png Ghana [show]Washington, DC, United States
November 13 2018 World Cup Q Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 1–0 23px-Flag_of_Honduras.svg.png Honduras [show]Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
November 17 2018 World Cup Q El Salvador 23px-Flag_of_El_Salvador.svg.png 0–0 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada [show]San Salvador, El Salvador

Fair enough. I like the recent streak too but we cannot forgo the new, talented players who might give us a boost for the same players that people on these boards complain aren't at the level we need to be competitive in Gold Cups or qualify for the Hex.  I like winning -- I hope we win. I'll be in Van to watch but I would feel more confident with Ledgerwood or Ricketts on the bench than starting on the field. 

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1 hour ago, Boominbooty said:

Fair enough. I like the recent streak too but we cannot forgo the new, talented players who might give us a boost for the same players that people on these boards complain aren't at the level we need to be competitive in Gold Cups or qualify for the Hex.  I like winning -- I hope we win. I'll be in Van to watch but I would feel more confident with Ledgerwood or Ricketts on the bench than starting on the field. 

If we had a better player than ledgerwood at RB then by all means keep him on the bench. But unlike Arfield who is head and shoulders above of Ricketts, we don't have a rightback that is head and shoulders above ledgerwood. 

 

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