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nolando

WTF happ. to M.A.? (Possible offensive phrasing)

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We need him back. Is there any possibility that someone has hacked his password and sabatoged his online personality? Or is it just a case of a bad thread pushing someone over the edge?

Hope he comes back in his old form, in any case/

MOD ADD: Title altered - requested by member below.

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No one has hacked his password, nolando.

First, I'll echo your sentiment that MA is a fixture around here. And a welcome one at that. He's invested plenty of time in projects that have benefited all Vs without being asked to do it and he's done it without asking for thanks in the true V fashion. What is more he contributes to the discussion around here. He's a part of our little niche community and I hope to see him back very soon.

A few things.

First, I haven't yet communicated with MA (I try him in the morning) but it's clear by one of his posts in another thread, that he is offended by the way in which one of his posts was moderated. I don't think he felt hard done by with the fact the post was moderated, just that the post in question was moderated in it's entirety. He was expecting a more surgical exercising of the moderator's prerogative.

Posts will be moderated in context and as time allows. Generally, sometimes removing an offensive phrase or word does absolutely nothing to dampen or disguise the nature of intent of a post. Or, time constraints simply don't allow for sensitive editing. In those instances, like it or not, posts will be edited in their entirety. That's just a reality until someone starts paying me $45K a year to moderate this forum.

Second, if moderators take a hard line with topics discussing minors, or respond more firmly after</u> receiving complaints from the V membership (either publicly on the forum or by e-mail), tough. In the one instance it may be "protective" and in the other "reactionary" but so far I'm completely comfortable with that practice as it's been applied.

Thirdly, there may appear to be a lot in inconsistency in the way topics are moderated around here. Some people might feel singled out. Until such time as you develop a poor posting history, you are not. Yes, goofy topics and posts come and go every week without moderator intervention but make no mistake (almost) every topic is viewed with a judgmental eye and given due note. Most of a moderators work, on and off the record, goes on privately and outside of the eye of the public forum. A public rebuke by a moderator isn't something to get overly bent about. (Hell, at one time I thought it was the preferred route for joining the Voyageur "Elite"). It is</u> however one of those times when the moderator talks and the poster listens. Or doesn't. Whatever. It's up to them.

Is that harsh? Not at all. The role of moderator and the application of that role is constantly being raised on this board and I don't necessarily think that is especially bad.

Geez, it took me almost 40 minutes to type all that....

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Well, I for one will miss his balanced posting. I always felt he had a good sense of humour and those fights he did pick were good fights, so to speak. There is a real ninny PC sect on this board, though I haven't noticed the mods necessarily being part of it. I wish I knew more about the context of his post so I could (or not) comment further.

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quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Well, I for one will miss his balanced posting. I always felt he had a good sense of humour and those fights he did pick were good fights, so to speak. There is a real ninny PC sect on this board, though I haven't noticed the mods necessarily being part of it. I wish I knew more about the context of his post so I could (or not) comment further.

Ditto on all.

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Oh, ok...

From MA himself,

"I'm not banned. I quit.

I don't want to be a member of a forum that deletes my posts.

I feel its a matter of opinion by politically correct losers that what I wrote was offensive. And even if it was offensive, I feel only the offensive word should have been deleted.

I don't like heavy handed moderating, especially in light of a lot of the crap that is deemed acceptable here.

I'm sorry if people are looking for videos. I do crazy things when I feel slighted.

If I still feel like posting videos next season I'm sure they will be available somewhere (Maxxed or the U-Sector forum).

I'm tired of posting here and I need a break."

Here's to hoping you will be backand in old form really soon.

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quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Well, I for one will miss his balanced posting. I always felt he had a good sense of humour and those fights he did pick were good fights, so to speak. There is a real ninny PC sect on this board, though I haven't noticed the mods necessarily being part of it. I wish I knew more about the context of his post so I could (or not) comment further.

Agree, Massive is a great poster, one of the best here! I hope he does come back.

I saw the post that was deleted in the Women's section. I didn't have a problem with it and I think there was maybe some overreaction by some people. We're a group of fans and sometimes harsh terms are utilized to describe some players. I don't have a problem with people calling Owen Hargreaves "Owen Whoregreaves"....so I don't mind if some V's are doing the same thing with Sidney Leroux calloing her Sidney Le*****. I don't do it but I expect some posters to do it and I'm fine with it, it's a National team fans forum!

Hope this gives you an idea of what happened.

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quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Well, I for one will miss his balanced posting. I always felt he had a good sense of humour and those fights he did pick were good fights, so to speak. There is a real ninny PC sect on this board, though I haven't noticed the mods necessarily being part of it. I wish I knew more about the context of his post so I could (or not) comment further.

Agree, Massive is a great poster, one of the best here! I hope he does come back.

I saw the post that was deleted in the Women's section. I didn't have a problem with it and I think there was maybe some overreaction by some people. We're a group of fans and sometimes harsh terms are utilized to describe some players. I don't have a problem with people calling Owen Hargreaves "Owen Whoregreaves"....so I don't mind if some V's are doing the same thing with Sidney Leroux calloing her Sidney Le*****. I don't do it but I expect some posters to do it and I'm fine with it, it's a National team fans forum!

Hope this gives you an idea of what happened.

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^ I rarely visit the woman's forum so I was not aware of what the reason was. Thanks for sharing.

'I don't mind if some V's are doing the same thing with Sidney Leroux calling her Sidney Le*****.'

If the above post was indeed moderated, I think that is incorrect. I do not know the whole story, but if that was the case, I believe MA deserves an apology. I hope that he will return.

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quote:Originally posted by masster

^ I rarely visit the woman's forum so I was not aware of what the reason was. Thanks for sharing.

'I don't mind if some V's are doing the same thing with Sidney Leroux calling her Sidney Le*****.'

If the above post was indeed moderated, I think that is incorrect. I do not know the whole story, but if that was the case, I believe MA deserves an apology. I hope that he will return.

Well, that's what I remember from the post. He called her Le*****, maybe there was more to it, only a moderator could tell.

I'm just trying to give the context who I believe led to this.

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Guest Ed

Here's the background.

A week or two ago when Sidney Leroux started scoring for the USWNT I posted a new thread titled 'New boor?' where boor rhymes with what I actually posted, suggesting that if anyone should have this title it would be the young lady who abandoned playing for Canada (was capped at u15, trained with Whitecaps) and now was suiting up for our direct rivals.

Now a few people chimed in with alternate suggestions, one being 'Leboor' where of course boor is not what was posted.

In the Women's U20s Odds and Ends thread, "Coach Rich" posted that he was happy for Leroux and her parents for such success. I responded they are traitors. The poster then dug up my post (in the first paragraph) and suggested I was not fit to be a parent or coach. Blah blah blah. Richard H chimed in saying I should be reprimanded for the post. Massive Attack posted that calling the young lady 'Leboor' was in fact quite right. Thread was locked almost immmediately after that (U20 odds and ends). And my original 'New boor?' thread was summarily deleted. I got warned about labelling minors with cuss words, I imagine he did too. He walked. I'm still here (at least until I get my Peter M interview done). Of course the whole history of Hargreaves' reactions on this board drove me to do the first post. So the PC sect got me on labelling the girl a bad name when of course they basically applaud calling Hargreaves the same thing. I just wanted to expose the lack of consistency.

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quote:Originally posted by masster

'I don't mind if some V's are doing the same thing with Sidney Leroux calling her Sidney Le*****.'

If the above post was indeed moderated, I think that is incorrect. I do not know the whole story, but if that was the case, I believe MA deserves an apology. I hope that he will return.

I hate it when I read stuff like this. Being a moderator is such a thankless job, I don't know how (or why) people like Cheeta and Bettermirror continue to do it.

First you get bitched at for not acting fast enough and then you get bitched at for doing too much. Most don't realize that you don't have the time to police every reply on every thread and weigh your available options when something controversial happens to pop up.

This isn't a shot at Massive Attack, as I think he's an alright fellow. If he wants to take a break, that's too bad but also his choice. However, for everybody else who want to weigh on with their advice on what the mods should or shouldn't do, I would suggest trying to be a moderator yourself sometime. It's no fun.

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quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

I hate it when I read stuff like this. Being a moderator is such a thankless job, I don't know how (or why) people like Cheeta and Bettermirror continue to do it.

First you get bitched at for not acting fast enough and then you get bitched at for doing too much. Most don't realize that you don't have the time to police every reply on every thread and weigh your available options when something controversial happens to pop up.

This isn't a shot at Massive Attack, as I think he's an alright fellow. If he wants to take a break, that's too bad but also his choice. However, for everybody else who want to weigh on with their advice on what the mods should or shouldn't do, I would suggest trying to be a moderator yourself sometime. It's no fun.

Sorry El Hombre. You are correct. I should not be and did not meen to attack the moderators cause their job is difficult and thankless enough as it it. I got carried away.

To express it differently, I think LeWhore is a suitable and appropriate nickname and should be allowed on this forum.

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I wonder if rather than deleting posts, the mods could add something to the title of the thread to indicate that it contains material that may be offensive to some readers. I don't think anything overly offensive happened based on Ed's description, but I can see that if the parents of the girl were reading they would be unhappy. Though it doesn't make much sense that they would be under the circumstances.

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Thanks to those of you who have posted here to let the rest of us know what happened. I actually saw the original thread but never realized that was the problem.

I'm about the least PC person you will ever meet but I think it is OTT to call a girl or a woman a "whore". And just to prove my non-PC-ness, I will say that, although I do not personally agree that he deserves the label, I have no problem with other people calling OH a whore because like it or not, IT IS DIFFERENT FOR A MAN! So, I agree with the mods on this one.

I also liked Massive Attack's presence on the forum and hope he will reconsider his decision to quit.

Hey Massive Attack, you've thrown your toys out of the pram on this one mate! It doesn't seem nearly important enough to get bent out of shape about. You posted something controversial (and you know it was!) and it got moderated. Ho hum. We all want you back!

Cheers, Doug.

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Guest Jeffery S.

I can accept that we have to control our language when referring to a minor if that is a clearly set out rule on the board. I really had no clue, don't really get the principle--if minors play for Canada or Canadians choose not to they are subject to Canadian fans' opinions--but can understand it could be important for some of us here, so I can accept it.

Regardless, I am surprised as most that the post referred to was deleted. What MA did in response is his responsibility though.

It is just a deleted post afterall. I don't know if I have had a post deleted, but I sure should have (I recall a rather inflamatory post joking about sexuality and minors a few years back, purely to provoke another poster, that was never deleted), and I sure have deleted a lot of my own posts after reflecting a bit, and wish I had deleted more. So you can edit yourself.

If MA really was not informed of the reasons why his post was to be deleted then he may have a beef, perhaps in hindsight he should have been warned. But if the criteria was laid out in any way by a mod and he did not respect it I am sorry. Because if we are just going to scream for freedom of speech and undermine any attempt to moderate the board it is going to be a lot worse and really unbearable, let's face it.

As for the term used to refer to Owen and Sydney, well I think it is just infantile. Big deal, calling someone a prostitute, when WC comes along, or Eurocup, or Copa America, soccer fans are the biggest clients of the mentioned professionals. So using a word to describe them as an insult is pure hypocrisy.

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quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

So she is a whore! I knew it.

Is the expression "To call a spade, a spade" racist? Or is it some sort of gardening reference?

Gawd, you know, I was thinking of that just yesterday.

Anyways, I vote we ban anyone with over 50 posts and just start fresh with the forum. Maybe the CSA will follow suit.

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quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Thought so.

Don't get me wrong. I am not criticizing the moding. Been there, done that, and it is a thankless task with too many posters very firmly committed to double standards: "Moderate him but leave me alone." I have no sympathy whatsoever for MA. I don't care about his long standing tenure nor that he been a useful contributor here for that tenure. Right now he is over reacting. The response is in no way proportional to the supposed offence.

I don't think the Mods get it right every time here, but I am grateful, as we all should be, that they are showing up to take on this thankless task.

I simply wanted to point out that Ms. Leroux is not a minor, as has been suggested.

I also agree 100% with Ed that the "tag" is no more or less appropriate in this case in any other. If it is fine to apply to a 19 year old man, it is certainly fine to apply to an 18 year woman. Personally, my very first post on this board was to the effect of great site, but a little harsh on young Mr. Hargreaves. Still think that, but anyone is free to disagree.

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^Oh, I didn't read you wrong, Gordon. I was doing my due diligence (quite odviously too late to be any good) and wading through my e-mails trying to get my head around the thing at about the same time as when you made your post.

Hope to have a clarification around this issue posted sooner rather than later. This evening at the latest.

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