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Herdman new head coach

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5 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

Also with all the International spots counting for something going forward we will be calling the bulk of our A team in most windows.

5-8 spots will be open to work younger players in each window but players will have to win a spot and the CPL will make it tougher.  

Don’t expect MLS benchwarmers, FC unattached and low level European players to make the team.   There will be in form CPL stars to draw from going forward.  These games count now.

Yeah we obviously want the strongest team for Canada playing in every fixture and no room for players who are weak links. Yeah sure we can have in form CPL stars but majority of our team well half of our team anyway play in other domestic leagues and of course they are in form too. Yes these games count especially now because we are soon heading into the Qatar 2022 Qualification cycle and if Herdman is serious about us qualifying then well we will truly see if this team is a flop or if they are actually worth a damn to actually qualify for a World Cup.

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4 hours ago, Tg11 said:

Which is why it remains to be seen if the 8 year plan will be a success and honestly he says the right things to appease the masses but what matters to me are results. Nothing else matters.

He isn't saying this stuff to appease the masses, he's trying to excite young players into committing to soccer long term.  He used the 2015 WWC in Canada the same way for the women.  It's all part of the plan.

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2 hours ago, rkomar said:

He isn't saying this stuff to appease the masses, he's trying to excite young players into committing to soccer long term.  He used the 2015 WWC in Canada the same way for the women.  It's all part of the plan.

Yeah I don't doubt that as far as trying to excite young guys but then again all Canadian MNT managers of the past said that and tried to do the very thing that you are saying Herdman has tried to do. In the end they all but failed miserably at doing just that so what makes Herdman any different from the others that came before him? The Nations League/2019 Gold Cup however will be what defines this vision of what Herdman is trying to accomplish as a success or failure. Just my opinion.

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1 minute ago, Tg11 said:

Yeah I don't doubt that as far as trying to excite young guys but then again all Canadian MNT managers of the past said that and tried to do the very thing that you are saying Herdman has tried to do. In the end they all but failed miserably at doing just that so what makes Herdman any different from the others that came before him? The Nations League/2019 Gold Cup however will be what defines this vision of what Herdman is trying to accomplish as a success or failure. Just my opinion.

All you have to do is look what he did for the women.  He didn't just rely on excitement.  He revamped the youth development system to sync it up with the senior team's requirements.  This is all old news that you can look up to see what Herdman is really about.  He does way more than just select a squad for the next game and tell them what strategy and tactics he wants them to use.  The plan will take years to develop, and it would be a hasty mistake to judge it before it has a chance to show whether it is working or not.

I don't know whether Herdman will succeed, but I'm 99.9999% sure that our past method of forming a squad of whatever players are on form and just playing them in a game will continue to produce bad results for us, no matter what strategy and tactics are tried.  We need to do something else to break into the top 50 in the world, something that involves a lot more organization and work.  The CPL may help with that, but it depends on the quality of the managers and trainers in the league.

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23 minutes ago, rkomar said:

All you have to do is look what he did for the women.  He didn't just rely on excitement.  He revamped the youth development system to sync it up with the senior team's requirements.  This is all old news that you can look up to see what Herdman is really about.  He does way more than just select a squad for the next game and tell them what strategy and tactics he wants them to use.  The plan will take years to develop, and it would be a hasty mistake to judge it before it has a chance to show whether it is working or not.

I don't know whether Herdman will succeed, but I'm 99.9999% sure that our past method of forming a squad of whatever players are on form and just playing them in a game will continue to produce bad results for us, no matter what strategy and tactics are tried.  We need to do something else to break into the top 50 in the world, something that involves a lot more organization and work.  The CPL may help with that, but it depends on the quality of the managers and trainers in the league.

Oh I don't disagree with that Canada does need to break into top 50 at least and they can do it by actually winning not only all of their Nations League games but actually doing well in the Gold Cup. If we won it all then that would help even more towards boosting our ranking but that even would be very slim.

Yeah he has at least a full cycle not just the 2019 and 21 Gold Cups but he has Qatar 2022. The CSA should give him until at least then to prove if the vision is a success or failure that is actually realistic.

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Holy shit.  It's hard not to get on board with this guy when you listen to the interview he gave with Nigel Reed in the second half of the Fury TFC game.  When he started talking about having pride in the shirt and that players that don't will be left off the team sheet, I almost got teary eyed.  God damn that was nice to hear.

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Posted (edited)

Herdman specifically said there are some players he has talked to that have little pride in the Canada jersey. They simply look at only as a way to get noticed and move up in their career. He wants players that will not just drop the jersey on the floor in the dressing room. This pride in the jersey needs to built at the youth levels 12-15.

He also said the Euro based players & Piette's pride is clearly on display even when talking with them online, which implies it is MLS and North American based youth players are the ones who are more likely to be perfidious.

This is in contrast to the women who view wearing the Canada shirt as the pinnacle. 

Edited by red card

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2 minutes ago, red card said:

Herdman specifically said there are some players he has talked to that have little pride in the Canada jersey. They simply look at only as a way to get noticed and move up in their career. He wants players that will not just drop the jersey on the floor in the dressing room. This pride in the jersey needs to built at the youth levels 12-15.

He also said the Euro based players & Piette's pride is clearly on display even when talking with them online, which implies it is MLS and North American based youth players are the ones who are more likely to be perfidious.

This is in contrast to the women who view wearing the Canada shirt as the pinnacle. 

I must have missed the Euro based comment. I thought he mentioned Oso along with Piette.

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Yeah you obviously want players who are not out for themselves but players who will give it their all when representing the country dying for the colors but then again these days especially in today's modern game of football that is so rare to find

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3 minutes ago, Tg11 said:

Yeah you obviously want players who are not out for themselves but players who will give it their all when representing the country dying for the colors but then again these days especially in today's modern game of football that is so rare to find

No it’s not look at the current England team or France team. Most of the players you could tell how much more the national team games mean to them.

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18 minutes ago, SkuseisLoose said:

No it’s not look at the current England team or France team. Most of the players you could tell how much more the national team games mean to them.

...and our opponents in Central America for that matter. Most Hondurans, Costa Ricans or Panamanians would sacrifice their left nut to make the World Cup.

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1 hour ago, red card said:

Herdman specifically said there are some players he has talked to that have little pride in the Canada jersey. They simply look at only as a way to get noticed and move up in their career. He wants players that will not just drop the jersey on the floor in the dressing room. This pride in the jersey needs to built at the youth levels 12-15.

He also said the Euro based players & Piette's pride is clearly on display even when talking with them online, which implies it is MLS and North American based youth players are the ones who are more likely to be perfidious.

This is in contrast to the women who view wearing the Canada shirt as the pinnacle. 

I wonder who he’s referring to? I guess we’ll find out based on conspicuous absences when it comes to his selections.

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48 minutes ago, A_Gagne said:

I wonder who he’s referring to? I guess we’ll find out based on conspicuous absences when it comes to his selections.

Not very classy.....is this not something that could have been dealt with man to man and not in the press.  Isnt Herdman just inviting people to question and speculate needlessly about the CMNT players??  Its bad enough now whenever certain players skip a camp or miss a game, now we have the coach make this public.  Its good to get those knds of guys out, but taking it to the press is ugly.  I guess he knows best after the 7 months he has had with the program.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, A_Gagne said:

I wonder who he’s referring to? I guess we’ll find out based on conspicuous absences when it comes to his selections.

Weird thinking that most of the North American-based players have been desperately seeking national minutes, especially the young guys. I can't see guys like DeJong, Henry, Teibert, Oso, Ricketts, Petrasso, Jackson-Hamel, the youth at TFC or Impact turning Canada down.  Obviously not poster boy Davies. Don't know much about Kaye but doubt that as well. Perhaps a guy who flew out regularly but rarely played last cycle like an Akindele but I'd doubt that. Will Johnson is done, but who would that leave?

Edit: Oh, I get it now: Cavallini.

Edited by nolando

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8 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I guess he knows best after the 7 months he has had with the program.  

He probably knows what each players response was when he asked them directly if they would be there in the fall when called upon by Canada. If their immediate response was "we'll see what my situation is then", I think Herdman understands that playing for Canada is not a priority.

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11 hours ago, Kent said:

I must have missed the Euro based comment. I thought he mentioned Oso along with Piette.

He most definitely did.

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9 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Not very classy.....is this not something that could have been dealt with man to man and not in the press.  Isnt Herdman just inviting people to question and speculate needlessly about the CMNT players??  Its bad enough now whenever certain players skip a camp or miss a game, now we have the coach make this public.  Its good to get those knds of guys out, but taking it to the press is ugly.  I guess he knows best after the 7 months he has had with the program.  

So:

1) Say something in an interview: "That's better dealt with man to man and not in the press.  Herdman out!"

2) Release a squad with little explanation: "Why is X missing?  He has no clue about selections!  Herdman out!"

Damned if he says something, damned if he says nothing.

Why hide it?  Put these guys on notice.  No one walks into this team any more.  If they don't really care, then this won't bother them.  If they do, this will light a fire.  Start by building a mentality of pride.

(All this to say: how many players will actually hear the highlights of an interview of a Can Champ game streamed only on canadasoccer.com).

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I won't be surprised if for the US Virgin Islands game that he ends up dropping a few names and we end up seeing some surprise fringe players within the Starting XI...with some of our important players either coming off of the bench or even getting dropped altogether. I am saying that at this point nothing would surprise me especially if Herdman is really serious about this system and he wants players to buy in. It really sends a strong message with him going this route.

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1 minute ago, Tg11 said:

I won't be surprised if for the US Virgin Islands game that he ends up dropping a few names and we end up seeing some surprise fringe players within the Starting XI...with some of our important players either coming off of the bench or even getting dropped altogether. I am saying that at this point nothing would surprise me especially if Herdman is really serious about this system and he wants players to buy in. It really sends a strong message with him going this route.

Considering his comments about how every game matters and the path to 2022 starts with the USVI game I doubt we're going to see a bunch of our key players sitting for this game. Herdman has been very clear that he wants to build continuity and the importance of each match. The comments about being passionate about putting on the jersey were probably aimed at a couple players, my guess, Cav and Johnson. So we may not see them, which although disappointing, I understand. 

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1 minute ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Considering his comments about how every game matters and the path to 2022 starts with the USVI game I doubt we're going to see a bunch of our key players sitting for this game. Herdman has been very clear that he wants to build continuity and the importance of each match. The comments about being passionate about putting on the jersey were probably aimed at a couple players, my guess, Cav and Johnson. So we may not see them, which although disappointing, I understand. 

 

I understand that too because he wants his players ready and he wants them motivated so what better way to make that statement than by dropping those 2 guys in particular and then replacing them with either newer players altogether like bringing in youth players to cover those 2 guys like bringing in someone like a Millar and Theo Bair. All I am saying is that if you do that then that's a pretty damn interesting way to shake things up within the squad.

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15 minutes ago, Tg11 said:

 

I understand that too because he wants his players ready and he wants them motivated so what better way to make that statement than by dropping those 2 guys in particular and then replacing them with either newer players altogether like bringing in youth players to cover those 2 guys like bringing in someone like a Millar and Theo Bair. All I am saying is that if you do that then that's a pretty damn interesting way to shake things up within the squad.

Theo Bair is no where close to the MNT team.

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10 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Theo Bair is no where close to the MNT team.

 

Then who would you suggest if you could drop Cav and Johnson?

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Tg11 said:

 

Then who would you suggest if you could drop Cav and Johnson?

For Cavallini I'd suggest Jonathan David. He was recently promoted to the Gent first team and has had a very good in pre-season for them. If Herdman thinks that he has done enough to earn CMNT minutes, he will have valuable senior MNT experience going into Nations League and WCQ.

Edit: If we are talking about the USVI game and it overlaps with the U-20 championships I'd rather have David at U-20 because he is probably our best U-20 striker ATM. 

Edited by Jith12

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Well, to me Herdman has already lost half the team if he’s airing dirty laundry publicly.  Any good coach will tell you, that you keep all locker room stuff within the locker room and don’t try to force players hand.  I don’t blame some players too for turning there back on Canada.  As much as you want to play for your country, you must have belief in your FA first that they’re trying to inprove the situation.  When your FA has hired questionable people in the past, fired a decent coach like Zambrano, not scheduled friendlies when it should matter, you’re going to get disillusioned players wondering why make the trek for Canada.  You want something to believe in that things will be different and that starts at the top.  This is not the girls team that he thinks he can motivate them by teling the press other things.  The men have bigger egos and haven’t had a decent coach that they actually listened with glee since god knows when.

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I assumed that the players he was referring to who allegedly only want to play for Canada in order to get noticed are players who haven't actually played for Canada yet or committed to the jersey. Johnson isn't going to a higher league from MLS, which he has been in for nearly a decade IIRC so I highly doubt that he only wants to play for Canada in order to, at age 31, move to the EPL or something. And why would Cavallini need to wear the Canada shirt in order to get noticed when he was at Penarol and was tearing up Liga MX this past half--season?

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