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RandomDude_555

How long would it take for CPL to surpass MLS in quality?

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Please, before calling me out for trolling, I just want a civilized and thoughtful discussion. MLS is not a good league in any way and the recent failure of the USMNT and the ongoing fiasco of USSF and lawsuits should give Canadians some insight and a taste of reality. The CSA is much better and make the USSF look like amateurs. So I think if the CPL is launched and organized correctly, it can easily surpass MLS in quality of play on the field. MLS after 20 years have not improved much both on the field and developing domestic players. That's because the US gets everything wrong and MLS's closed single-entity nonsense and a collusion with USSF and SUM makes the league really corrupt. IMHO Don Garber should be in prison along with a few other SUM and USSF personnel. 

Canada on the other hand never had any "soccer wars" and it doesn't take much to reach MLS level of play. The CPL probably won't have as much money to sign multi-million dollar DP's but can set rules for better roster construction and with pro/rel in the future it can be more competitive and authentic than MLS. Also the CPL will have real clubs, not franchises and Canada already allows training comp unlike the US. So if things get planned well, how soon can you expect the CPL to be higher quality than MLS on the field at least?

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2 hours ago, RandomDude_555 said:

...The CSA is much better and make the USSF look like amateurs...

How long have you been following soccer? I am completely mystified how anyone could ever reach that conclusion. Try listening to what Paul Beirne is saying in podcasts. He makes it abundantly clear that CanPL are not trying to rival or surpass  MLS because they want a business model that can work in metro areas of 200k or so like Moncton or Kelowna w/ Penticton.

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MLS doesn't pay well besides 3 DP's. Budget doesn't translate to quality either. MLS teams have higher budgets than Central America and Caribbean leagues, but still struggle against them in CCL. Also, unlike South American and African leagues with smaller budgets, MLS has NEVER produced a world class player to sell to Europe.

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8 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

How long have you been following soccer? I am completely mystified how anyone could ever reach that conclusion. Try listening to what Paul Beirne is saying in podcasts. He makes it abundantly clear that CanPL are not trying to rival or surpass  MLS because they want a business model that can work in metro areas of 200k or so like Moncton or Kelowna w/ Penticton.

Have you been following on the USSF fiasco lately? When did the CSA have an incestuous relationship with 1 league and ignore the rest? Canada allows training compensation and is considering pro/rel. There was also an article a few days ago about New Brunswick trying to eliminate pay-to-play. Right now CSA is making solid plans and improving Canada soccer while the USSF is basically having a civil war between the execs and lower leagues/clubs.

Also what does metro area size have to do with quality? The CPL can easily surpass MLS, considering how low the bar really is.

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MLS doesn't pay well besides 3 DP's. Budget doesn't translate to quality either. MLS teams have higher budgets than Central America and Caribbean leagues, but still struggle against them in CCL. Also, unlike South American and African leagues with smaller budgets, MLS has NEVER produced a world class player to sell to Europe.

Tim Howard?

 

Edited by Bison44

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3 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Tim Howard?

 

I don't believe you're a clueless American soccer fan. Ask some people around the world or even Premier League forums and find out who actually thinks he's world class. What has Howard done beside the Belgium game in 2014 where he had to be the hero because the US defence was invisible?

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Just now, Bison44 said:

Um.... play in the Premier league for a dozen years.  400 games with good clubs in a top league...sounds pretty good to me.  

Um...Everton has never been a top club and he was only good for a few years. He might be above average, but not "world class." Compare Howard to Casillas, Buffon, Neuer, etc. and he's nowhere close.

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On 2017-11-11 at 1:00 AM, RandomDude_555 said:

Canada on the other hand never had any "soccer wars" and it doesn't take much to reach MLS level of play. The CPL probably won't have as much money to sign multi-million dollar DP's but can set rules for better roster construction and with pro/rel in the future it can be more competitive and authentic than MLS. Also the CPL will have real clubs, not franchises and Canada already allows training comp unlike the US. So if things get planned well, how soon can you expect the CPL to be higher quality than MLS on the field at least?

I'm going to give you some actual discussion on this topic. Level of play is quite subjective when it comes to small revenue/small budget leagues which Major League Soccer falls into. Sure, for example, people might make the argument that MLS has a "higher" level of play than the Croatian or Uruguayan first divisions but, after seeing enough of both those leagues, I think they both resemble how the sport should be played at a much higher level than major league soccer IMO. There is a legit nature to the players in those two leagues with regards to confidence, toughness, ambition, desire and hunger where every time one of them receives the ball, they act like it's their last. You just don't find that in MLS' suburban college boy soccer.

Now, with regards to the CPL going with the club model and being more authentic, that could influence the style of play. We have a good scene in the GTA and Brampton in particular and starting them young professionally and foregoing the college route like you see in MLS will foster an environment where our league can resemble how the sport is played in those two aforementioned countries IMO. So, will the CPL have a "higher" level of play than MLS five years after the former’s kick off? I don't know and don't care to be honest. Will the CPL have a style that is more aligned to how the sport should be played? Yes. Will this foster the development of more elite level players than the USA? I think it will.

Edited by Macksam

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Is RandomDude555 a new account for that Mister215Guy or whatever it was that just trashed USA/MLS in every single post? Either way, on to a couple points that I will take more seriously than they likely should be.

On 11/11/2017 at 12:13 PM, RandomDude_555 said:

When did the CSA have an incestuous relationship with 1 league and ignore the rest?

A better question to ask might be "When did Canada have more than 1 league?"

On 11/11/2017 at 12:08 PM, RandomDude_555 said:

MLS teams have higher budgets than Central America and Caribbean leagues, but still struggle against them in CCL

"Struggle" is probably harsh. "Doesn't win every single game" would probably be more accurate. Over the past 5 years MLS teams have had the following W-T-L records against Central American and Caribbean teams in the group stage

Central America:
2012/13: 10-3-1 -> PPG = 2.36
2013/14: 8-2-4 -> PPG = 1.86
2014/15: 8-2-2 -> PPG = 2.17
2015/16: 8-2-2 -> PPG = 2.17
2016/17: 6-5-1 -> PPG = 1.92

Caribbean:
2012/13: 3-1-0 -> PPG = 2.50
2013/14: 1-1-0 -> PPG = 2.00
2014/15: 4-0-0 -> PPG = 3.00
2015/16: 2-2-0 -> PPG = 2.00
2016/17: 3-1-0 -> PPG = 2.50

In the knockout rounds MLS teams have played Central American opponents 4 times, winning 3 out of those 4.

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10 hours ago, Kent said:

Is RandomDude555 a new account for that Mister215Guy or whatever it was that just trashed USA/MLS in every single post? Either way, on to a couple points that I will take more seriously than they likely should be.

A better question to ask might be "When did Canada have more than 1 league?"

"Struggle" is probably harsh. "Doesn't win every single game" would probably be more accurate. Over the past 5 years MLS teams have had the following W-T-L records against Central American and Caribbean teams in the group stage

Central America:
2012/13: 10-3-1 -> PPG = 2.36
2013/14: 8-2-4 -> PPG = 1.86
2014/15: 8-2-2 -> PPG = 2.17
2015/16: 8-2-2 -> PPG = 2.17
2016/17: 6-5-1 -> PPG = 1.92

Caribbean:
2012/13: 3-1-0 -> PPG = 2.50
2013/14: 1-1-0 -> PPG = 2.00
2014/15: 4-0-0 -> PPG = 3.00
2015/16: 2-2-0 -> PPG = 2.00
2016/17: 3-1-0 -> PPG = 2.50

In the knockout rounds MLS teams have played Central American opponents 4 times, winning 3 out of those 4.

Also, you need to point out that Canadian teams have better results than American ones. Hence Canada > USA in CCL despite having only 1 spot. So if Canada is already outperforming the US without a domestic league, why can't the CPL do the same?

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12 hours ago, RandomDude_555 said:

Also, you need to point out that Canadian teams have better results than American ones. Hence Canada > USA in CCL despite having only 1 spot. So if Canada is already outperforming the US without a domestic league, why can't the CPL do the same?

Yes, Canadian teams do have better results than American ones. I've actually got those calculations handy.

Last 5 CCL campaigns PPG. Note that unlike the numbers I posted earlier, these ones do include knockout round results. I considered a home and away series as one game, win or lose, rather than two games.

Mexico - 2.22
Canada - 1.88
USA - 1.78
Costa Rica - 1.60
Honduras - 1.37
Guatemala - 1.28
Jamaica - 0.88
Panama - 0.85
El Salvador - 0.66
Belize - 0.50
Puerto Rico - 0.50
Trinidad and Tobago - 0.41
Nicaragua - 0.30
Haiti - 0.00
Guyana - 0.00

As for your question about why CPL can't outperform MLS. You can't draw that conclusion based on Canadian MLS team performance in the CCL. CPL teams won't have the benefit of big budgets partially obtained by MLS TV deals, expansion fees, sponsorship deals, etc. The CPL also won't have as large a domestic pool of players to choose from, and yes we are behind the USA in player development. Hopefully CPL can help change that, but that is today's reality.

We shouldn't be talking about when CPL can surpass MLS yet. Let's talk about getting CPL off the ground first, then lets try to help it survive. Then lets try to help it thrive. All the while we can watch the Voyageurs Cup and potentially CCL or CONCACAF League results to see where it is at relative to MLS.

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On 11/11/2017 at 9:13 AM, RandomDude_555 said:

Have you been following on the USSF fiasco lately? When did the CSA have an incestuous relationship with 1 league and ignore the rest?

LOL When did the CSA have ANY meaningful  relationship with multiple leagues? 

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7 minutes ago, matty said:

cause this is a shitpost thread (i think) anyone else disappointed by stranger things 2?

100% shitpost thread. I agree on Stranger Things. It's 3 episodes worth of ideas in 9 episodes. Ozark on the other hand, is the most underrated show on Netflix.

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15 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

100% shitpost thread. I agree on Stranger Things. It's 3 episodes worth of ideas in 9 episodes. Ozark on the other hand, is the most underrated show on Netflix.

I didn't hate it, but episode 7 was infuriatingly pointless.  

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2 hours ago, Chad_Impact said:

I didn't hate it, but episode 7 was infuriatingly pointless.  

Second person today to say that.  Just watched it and didn't think it was that bad and somewhat relevant.

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