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MLS Player Development

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6 minutes ago, TRM said:

What if the clubs developed them from ages 12-18 and then they went to NCAA, got GenA contracts and got drafted by US based MLS teams? What if there are 10+ starters in MLS but just not on the 3 Canadian teams?

Then no WC for us, try again.

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The biggest gap I can currently see was the one that the USL "2 teams" was supposed to fix. Competitive playing time for the 18-22 year old players. Now that it's gone how much playing time on the affiliates? 

So what is the option for them other than university?

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5 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Then no WC for us, try again.

Canada would have 10+ players as starters in MLS and you think we wouldn't make the world cup? We now have 3. How does it matter to our world cup hopes if we have 10+ starters in US MLS teams or 10+ on Canadian teams?

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3 minutes ago, TRM said:

The biggest gap I can currently see was the one that the USL "2 teams" was supposed to fix. Competitive playing time for the 18-22 year old players. Now that it's gone how much playing time on the affiliates? 

So what is the option for them other than university?

Europe.

But yeah, that was supposed to close a gap in development and now there's only one club (TFC) with a true reserve team.

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2 minutes ago, TRM said:

Canada would have 10+ players as starters in MLS and you think we wouldn't make the world cup? We now have 3. How does it matter to our world cup hopes if we have 10+ starters in US MLS teams or 10+ on Canadian teams?

B0POiNIIcAAV2NZ.jpg

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4 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Europe.

But yeah, that was supposed to close a gap in development and now there's only one club (TFC) with a true reserve team.

Is that the one in L1O? TFC III? What is happening with their USL team? 

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8 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Cute graphic of a brick wall for some unbeknown reason :)

Not that your graphic was less than helpful but ...

Are you saying that with 10+ starters in MLS you think we won't make the WC unless they are playing on the 3 Canadian teams? 

Just to clarify the meaning in the graphic. 

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2 hours ago, TRM said:

Not that your graphic was less than helpful but ...

Are you saying that with 10+ starters in MLS you think we won't make the WC unless they are playing on the 3 Canadian teams? 

Just to clarify the meaning in the graphic. 

My comment was a joke from the get-go. You've been taking it seriously for some unknown reason.

BTW, those players in your scenario would count as HG and would only be drafted by US teams if the CDN club renounced it's rights....

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11 hours ago, jpg75 said:

My comment was a joke from the get-go. You've been taking it seriously for some unknown reason.

BTW, those players in your scenario would count as HG and would only be drafted by US teams if the CDN club renounced it's rights....

I fail to see how "Then no WC for us, try again" to a comment about having 10+ starters in MLS  (but not on Canadian teams) is humorous but that's probably just me  :)

Only if the player signs a homegrown contract or continues to train with the team during the uni off season. If they don't they can go to university and become a free transfer to anyone who drafts them. 

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23 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Where did you hear that?

Over at the11.ca he was speculating that TFC2 was done as TFC didn't seem to care that they were almost 100 minutes per game short of their CSA quota for Canadian minutes (15072/32 (471) instead of the 18080/32 (565))

It was speculation on his part but having heard nothing from the CSA complaint wise or from TFC about it was well reasoned speculation. 

I hope they keep it for the 18-22 group that doesn't go to university and can't do Europe. Failing that a team in L1O? Affiliate with USL? 

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On 11/13/2017 at 3:07 PM, Free kick said:

Mancuso is gone.  AJH beat him out.  Mancuso was veteran who, at professional level,  had proven himself.  The younger Canadian developed kid has to beat him out and prove he belongs.   And he did.  Not because of just one or two outings.  How is this different than on any professional team in any sport.  

Where did you hear Mancuso is gone? I have not heard anything about that so far. AJH should have got way more time this year once it was clear he was playing well and scoring and Mancuso was not. We are the only Canadian MLS club with a bonafide starter and even that is almost despite ourselves trying out hardest to avoid it. If Mancuso is with the team next year I would not be surprised at all if he goes to camp as the pencilled in starter and AJH has to win the job from him all over again next year.

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5 hours ago, TRM said:

Over at the11.ca he was speculating that TFC2 was done as TFC didn't seem to care that they were almost 100 minutes per game short of their CSA quota for Canadian minutes (15072/32 (471) instead of the 18080/32 (565))

It was speculation on his part but having heard nothing from the CSA complaint wise or from TFC about it was well reasoned speculation. 

I hope they keep it for the 18-22 group that doesn't go to university and can't do Europe. Failing that a team in L1O? Affiliate with USL? 

It would be hard to come down on them when the other 2 USL clubs have already folded.  Better to have 471 minutes per game than the minutes the montreal kids got at Ottawa.  

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5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

It would be hard to come down on them when the other 2 USL clubs have already folded.  Better to have 471 minutes per game than the minutes the montreal kids got at Ottawa.  

Yea maybe Montreal was just first to realise it wasn't going to work. 

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1 hour ago, TRM said:

Yea maybe Montreal was just first to realise it wasn't going to work. 

Yeah you are right but its too bad......that week or two FC Montreal folded and ottawa moved to USL was a bad time for CDN soccer. We need more teams, not less.  It burns me every time I see those stats about USL attendance in the USA.  So many people going to see so many teams all over the US. Granted our MLS affiliated USL teams were not exactly dreamboats but to have 2/3 drop out so quickly, it doesnt fill me with confidence for the CPL.  

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12 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

 

Yeah you are right but its too bad......that week or two FC Montreal folded and ottawa moved to USL was a bad time for CDN soccer. We need more teams, not less.  It burns me every time I see those stats about USL attendance in the USA.  So many people going to see so many teams all over the US. Granted our MLS affiliated USL teams were not exactly dreamboats but to have 2/3 drop out so quickly, it doesnt fill me with confidence for the CPL.  

Which is why I hope the CPL stays away from Vancouver for a little while. The Caps had a whole "Come see the future of the Caps and Canada" campaign and gave discounted/free tickets to youth soccer clubs in the area. They averaged 869 people in attendance this year...that's like maybe 500 spectators a game after you safely assume ~300 tickets a game being given away and no-shows. The only team that drew less in all of USL/NASL was NYRBII, who play in Couldn'tcatchmedeadthere, New Jersey.

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https://www.whitecapsfc.com/post/2017/11/16/concacaf-announces-new-year-round-national-team-competition

So we need more serious competition for our 18-22 year old players especially with the loss of the 2 (possibly 3) USL2 teams and along comes "CONCACAF League of Nations".

How about we send a 18-22 team? This is a year round competition that would be excellent training and get them used to our competition. It wouldn't cost the MLS teams anything. 

Edited by TRM

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13 hours ago, jpg75 said:

"Hey CSA, we can't be bothered to develop our own players, can you do it for us?"

Hardly. They do develop them but they only face Canadian & USA competition. I hope that was just a lame attempt at humour because it is very sad.

First getting them used to CONCACAF conditions would be great. Second it would give them more playing time. Third they also get to play year round including the winter off season!! That means they come into MLS preseason camps game ready giving them a leg up on their competition (at least initially). Fourth it would be 100% Canadians unlike USL, NASL, etc, and being an official match it would cap tie all the youth who played..

I think this is a great balance. The teams pay and train the players and the CSA provides games for those who haven't taken a starting spot yet. Travel and expenses would be covered by the CSA. 

If you don't like this idea for playing time please post your ideas and spare me the CPL talk until it is real. This CLoN is real and has announced it will start in September 2018. 

http://www.concacaf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/CONCACAF-LEAGUE-OF-NATIONS-FAQ-ENG.pdf

 

Edited by TRM

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No TRM, what you're proposing is gifting spots on the MNT to a bunch of kids. Spots on the MNT are earned, just as you espouse them to be on your precious Whitecaps. These games will be qualifiers for the GC and may influence seeding for WCQ so we can't throw away results. Any young players we introduce should only be rotated into the squad and deserving domestic veterans who play well and deserve the call should be playing and not discriminated against because of age.

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6 minutes ago, shermanator said:

So, young Canadian talent who need to earn their minutes on MLS squads should also be gifted minutes on the national team? Does that make sense to anyone?

Both you and jpg75 are conflating U23 with MNT. They are different. I thought I made that clear.

There is no "gifting" here. Players like Hamilton will get playing time by beating out other players. More games means a bigger rotation of players still means lots of competition for spots. Our MNT regulars will still get playing time, possibly more than they do now, but more emphasis on the U23 players for the games against the lower ranked teams. 

But we'll just scrap the idea and keep complaining about lack of meaningful minutes for the players and keep pinning our hopes on a CPL that doesn't have a starting date, a USL experiment that has failed and USL affiliation that features drastically reduced minutes. Sure sounds like a great plan to me. 

I keep asking for alternatives ....

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