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Canada vs El Salvador - Sun Oct 8th - Houston TX

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With the exception of Piette, no one played close to their level, including Arfield; this is why we lost the game. Part of it could be a lack of match fitness ( Edwards, Aird, Petrasso, Vitoria are not getting minutes with their club teams), Osorio and recently Larin off the bench minutes, Kaye played at left back vs. forward for Louisville. So only Arfield, Piette and Jakovic were fully match fit on the starting 11. None of the subs are getting any significant minutes with their clubs. 

Playing in heat and humidity does strange things to your body and mind and you have to be in peak shape to battle the elements. This is accentuated when players  give the ball away and are constantly dispossessed  when they are attacking. To get out of Concacaf for WC qualifying, we need mobile central defenders. Not the reason we lost, but playing Jakovic and Vitoria together  puts too much pressure on our fullbacks and central mids to stay compact and not get stretched. We do need to find quality mobile defenders :)

 

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3 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Why do you think this?

Perhaps my thoughts are skewed by what I saw in the Gold Cup and against Jamaica. I look at our results against El Salvador in the last qualifying cycle and saw a massive gap in quality between our side and theirs. Yes, many of our best players were not on the pitch yesterday, but I believe that we have enough quality in the side to defeat a league built primarily from their domestic league. Unfortunately, I think that many of our players did not show the same skillful play in yesterday's game that they show with their club teams, Osorio and Edwards in particular.

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4 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

You're arguing against a partial argument. You took a counterpoint I made as my main point. Danny was trying to say that we played the El Salvador A-team, we didn't. Clearly you care a lot about the distinctions between "A-team", "B-team", "starter", and "key player". Fine. Whatever.

The fact is we sent a similarly weakened starting eleven to Houston in comparison to what El Salvador sent....and we lost. Do you dispute that?

Yes, of course I do.

The part I dispute is that our squad was "similarly weakened". Both squads were weakened yes, but in my opinion, ours was weakened much more so.

I am not saying that to excuse our loss, I am saying that because some of you seem shocked at the result. I don't think you should be. El Salvador called a better squad than we did.

 

 

 

 

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A team, B team, C team, D team... who cares. Is it too much to expect to beat El Salvador? OZ obviously wanted to call up some young (mostly undeserving) players this time, but that doesn't let Canada off the hook. In 2017 I expect a result against El Salvador. No excuses.

This result really stunts our momentum.

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8 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

A team, B team, C team, D team... who cares. Is it too much to expect to beat El Salvador? OZ obviously wanted to call up some young (mostly undeserving) players this time, but that doesn't let Canada off the hook. In 2017 I expect a result against El Salvador. No excuses.

This result really stunts our momentum.

I think you should temper your expectations, but if you want to keep on being disappointed, keep on keeping on :)

That said, yeah for sure it does stunt our momentum. It is too bad we could not at least get a draw against a side we are aiming to beat on a regular basis. 

Like Zambrano said, the information we got, figuring out who can or can't cut it from our reserve players, was valuable. 

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6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think you should temper your expectations, but if you want to keep on being disappointed, keep on keeping on :)

That said, yeah for sure it does stunt our momentum. It is too bad we could not at least get a draw against a side we are aiming to beat on a regular basis. 

Like Zambrano said, the information we got, figuring out who can or can't cut it from our reserve players, was valuable. 

Exactly.  For all of us screaming for OZ to play Edwards, Cordova, Aleman, Aird etc etc ad nauseum....there you go. Oz has brought these guys in and give them a run out.  And they couldnt shine against ES let alone compete with HON, Costa Rica, Mexico etc.  I am guessing that maybe Schweitzer, Elva, Louis BG and others etc maybe didnt show enough in training to get on the pitch.   Some guys are ready, some are not.  

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21 hours ago, shermanator said:

Perhaps my thoughts are skewed by what I saw in the Gold Cup and against Jamaica. I look at our results against El Salvador in the last qualifying cycle and saw a massive gap in quality between our side and theirs. Yes, many of our best players were not on the pitch yesterday, but I believe that we have enough quality in the side to defeat a league built primarily from their domestic league. Unfortunately, I think that many of our players did not show the same skillful play in yesterday's game that they show with their club teams, Osorio and Edwards in particular.

It shows that we have young, talented players, but they can be inconsistent, which goes back to not playing on a regular basis.

Most of the El Salvador players we faced over the weekend do get regular minutes at their clubs. Sure, it is a lower level than MLS, but they are actually playing.

Another thing to keep in mind is how much more experienced their squad was. Compare the number of caps between the two sides. We made an error, they capatilized and killed off the game, CONCACAF style. Disappointing, but not surprising....

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8 hours ago, Obinna said:

It shows that we have young, talented players, but they can be inconsistent, which goes back to not playing on a regular basis

You could certainly see that with Edwards.  His frustration was building.

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On 10/9/2017 at 7:02 PM, Bison44 said:

Exactly.  For all of us screaming for OZ to play Edwards, Cordova, Aleman, Aird etc etc ad nauseum....there you go. Oz has brought these guys in and give them a run out.  And they couldnt shine against ES let alone compete with HON, Costa Rica, Mexico etc.  I am guessing that maybe Schweitzer, Elva, Louis BG and others etc maybe didnt show enough in training to get on the pitch.   Some guys are ready, some are not.  

I read on twitter that Elva and Ricketts didn't get a run because they were sent back to their respective clubs after picking up a knock in training.

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It should also be pointed out that because we haven't got that much depth (more than before, but still not that much) many of the younger players who had an off day will surely get another chance down the road because of necessity and if they continue to play well for their clubs. I'm sure Zambrano will realize that everyone can have an off-day and it shouldn't be "one and done" for the younger players.

For "everyone can have an off day" look no further than the US, who are having yet another off-day as we speak (losing 2-0 at the half to T&T) but who might still qualify directly for the World Cup because the other two teams who are in a must-win situation (Panama & Honduras) are also losing at the half. It appears that nobody other than Mexico or Costa Rica wants to qualify.....

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Results of friendlies are meaningless. Only competitive fixtures matter. We beat them in WCQ and that is what counts. We basically own El Salvador. When was the last time we lost to them in a competitive fixture?

We have improved greatly under OZ and have very good momentum. This result changes nothing.

Edited by dsqpr

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 5:51 PM, Gian-Luca said:

It should also be pointed out that because we haven't got that much depth (more than before, but still not that much) many of the younger players who had an off day will surely get another chance down the road because of necessity and if they continue to play well for their clubs. I'm sure Zambrano will realize that everyone can have an off-day and it shouldn't be "one and done" for the younger players.

Agreed.  What I would like to see OZ do with regards to younger depth is try, where possible, to call up guys who have done well at club level and have earned a call up (emphasis on "where possible":  this is Canada , after all ;) ).  A guy like Edwards, for example, has had somewhat of a breakthrough year but is behind arguably the best LWB in MLS:  his having an off day in this match shouldn't be weighed against him as much. 

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1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

Results of friendlies are meaningless. Only competitive fixtures matter. We beat them in WCQ and that is what counts. We basically own El Salvador. When was the last time we lost to them in a competitive fixture?

We have improved greatly under OZ and have very good momentum. This result changes nothing.

NO they are not meaningless! WoW why don't people get it! We need the points so we can go up in the FIFA rankings. This is Important because some high level Leagues in Europe like for example the EPL  require countries to be a  certain ranking for there  players to get work permits. That's one of the reason why our young Canadian players have to get  another citizenship so they can play in Europe. Also if they get another Citizenship there is a chance we will lose them to another country. Prime example of this LB Zohran Bassong, plays for Lille B, he's a young talented player and we lost him to  Belgium. 

Edited by SpecialK

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1 minute ago, SpecialK said:

NO they are not meaningless! WoW why don't people get it! We need the points so we can go up in the FIFA rankings. This is Important because some high level Leagues in Europe like for example the EPL  require countries to be a  certain ranking for there  players can get work permits.

I agree with you that friendlies do matter (especially since Canada doesn't have any games of real weight until 2019). Those points are needed. I'm not too concerned over this game, it was bad but not end of the world.

3 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

That's one of the reason why our young Canadian players have to get  another citizenship so they can play in Europe. Also if they get another Citizenship there is a chance we will lose them to another country.

I think you're over thinking the citizenship thing here. Most of our players are already duals at birth so that risk is already there (it's not something created by our ranking) and now that we're developing players at home youngsters don't necessarily have to leave and the older guys that do go are usually cap tied before they go.

All that said we need to raise and maintain our rank

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8 hours ago, matty said:

I think you're over thinking the citizenship thing here. Most of our players are already duals at birth so that risk is already there (it's not something created by our ranking) and now that we're developing players at home youngsters don't necessarily have to leave and the older guys that do go are usually cap tied before they go.

All that said we need to raise and maintain our rank

Hey I could be wrong but I would like to think if a young player goes over to Europe has a labeled a Canadian player, they are going stay and play for Canada. I know it one example but I could be totally wrong, but it seems if Zohran Bassong went over as a Canadian and not Belgium he would feel more of loyalty to Canada not the Country Belgium that has gave him huge Opportunities in world of soccer more than Canada has. After reading that article about him, they paint a picture that there was was nothing for him here and he needed to go over to Europe for better things and it would better for him to become a Belgium citizen. If Canada was better ranked and didn't have a stigma our players wouldnt have to pull out the duel for better opportunities. 

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13 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Hey I could be wrong but I would like to think if a young player goes over to Europe has a labeled a Canadian player, they are going stay and play for Canada. I know it one example but I could be totally wrong, but it seems if Zohran Bassong went over as a Canadian and not Belgium he would feel more of loyalty to Canada not the Country Belgium that has gave him huge Opportunities in world of soccer more than Canada has. After reading that article about him, they paint a picture that there was was nothing for him here and he needed to go over to Europe for better things and it would better for him to become a Belgium citizen. If Canada was better ranked and didn't have a stigma our players wouldnt have to pull out the duel for better opportunities. 

Canada’s rank is not the deciding factor on whether players jump ship. They aren’t plastics

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2 hours ago, canta15 said:

Canada’s rank is not the deciding factor on whether players jump ship. They aren’t plastics

No your right, it's the players, but it can be a huge factor. 

The  higher  in rank we are the better for everyone. FIFA rankings are important. 

Edited by SpecialK

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14 hours ago, SpecialK said:

NO they are not meaningless! WoW why don't people get it! We need the points so we can go up in the FIFA rankings. This is Important because some high level Leagues in Europe like for example the EPL  require countries to be a  certain ranking for there  players to get work permits. That's one of the reason why our young Canadian players have to get  another citizenship so they can play in Europe. Also if they get another Citizenship there is a chance we will lose them to another country. Prime example of this LB Zohran Bassong, plays for Lille B, he's a young talented player and we lost him to  Belgium. 

You use friendlies to try out players and tactics. You will win some and lose some. If you go balls to the wall trying to win every friendly you will sacrifice a lot in terms of learning about your fringe and younger players, and tactical options. And consequently you will do worse in the matches that have a much higher multiplier for ranking purposes.

When you are playing to try out players and tactics, the result is meaningless. What you learn from the match is what matters.

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46 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

You use friendlies to try out players and tactics. You will win some and lose some. If you go balls to the wall trying to win every friendly you will sacrifice a lot in terms of learning about your fringe and younger players, and tactical options. And consequently you will do worse in the matches that have a much higher multiplier for ranking purposes.

When you are playing to try out players and tactics, the result is meaningless. What you learn from the match is what matters.

 I get what your saying and your right you win some and you lose some, but if the  effort is there, no issues. But because the important of rankings and points and you want to give the young/ new guys a look and try new things, then have two games. One against a low end team and another against equal or better . That Africa camp was perfect but Canada played their strong side against the low end team and the new and young guys vs the strong team. I don't get it. The international break is what a week ? That's 2 games with  potential of 3 - 5 days of practice.  If the CSA  organizes international break well you can have your cake and eat it too.

Edited by SpecialK

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