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I'm so divided on the quota idea for MLS and even in the CPL. See both sides. I am going to question this, you guys keep throwing out the statement that Canadian players in MLS and CPL need minutes and they will get better. Ok I see the thinking and minutes are important but playing against good players/teams is equally important, general statement here " if bad players are only playing against bad players they are not going to get better". I worry a lot of CPL and quality of players it will have because of salary caps and quotas. But hey it could be great and it all works out.

After watching the game vs  El Salvador and the USA shitting the bed, it got me thinking and these questions that keep on popping up. Hey I maybe wrong, but just something to think about 

1) is Canada relying way to much on North American leagues?. Are we missing out on any of Canadian European Club players ? If  you look at some the guys out there, there are some playing really good football right now. Prime example- Massih Wassey 10 games 4 goals and 3 assists, yes that's just one but there more out there.

2) how good is the MLS and Canadian North American club players really? Are we overrating the players because we are fans of the clubs and we watch them play all the time, as we football fans we have been  diluted. Look Arfield take away the Canadian fan bias and what is he? He's a key role player playing on middle of pack EPL team, but you put him on the Canadian team he's way better by a long shot to any other midfielder or maybe even the entire team but maybe Hutch. To me that's the scary part, a mid level EPL player is better then the entire Canadian team. 

3) the Canadian U17 team only MLS academy players but 2 were pick why ? And is that acceptable? By doing that are we creating a disconnect to our Canadian European academy players? 

4) lack of  proper coaching on national teams? . For years Canada/CSA has give amateur coaches head coaching jobs, at all levels, if we start bring in professional coaches will that change things ? 

5) lack games and camps on all levels ? Should the U17 U20 U23 and senior teams, play more more games and have more camps would this help? 

6) lack of countability ? Just watch this video 

 we don't really have this in Canada, some of you may disagree but I believed we don't. With the US losing and not qualifying you watch there will be some whole sale changes being made. Here in Canada we don't do that. How is the program going to get better when losing is ok and better luck next time? Hey maybe it's changed now at the CSA but Stalteri is still there. wayne gretzky resign and massive changes happen after the embarrassing loss in the 2006 Olympics. If you lose you gonna go even if were a great player. 

 

 

Edited by SpecialK

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9 hours ago, Obinna said:

Honduras go to the playoff! Did the Aussies beat out Syria? I am going to enjoy them withering in the Honduran heat. See how they like the Central American treatment...

yeah im not bitter or anything ..... hahaha

So it's Australia vs Honduras?

I hope the Hondurans to play their usual tactics and the world gets to see the kind of diving and time wasting we have to put with.  It would be nice if FIFA tells CONCACAF to get their act together.

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In several different forums on this site people have held the Bundesliga and Germany up as an examples of how to run a soccer league and national program. In the interview with Taylor Twellman (thanks SpecialK!) they raise the example of Germany failing to qualify for the World Cup, making major changes by all stakeholders, and then winning the World Cup. Forgetting about the US for a moment, maybe Canada has a golden opportunity to do just what Germany did.

It would take the CSA and CPL to do this. MLS won't (for Canada). CSA as the DFB in the example above. CPL as the Bundesliga, and CPL II (whatever name, but as maybe four regional leagues due to our country's size) as the 2. Bundesliga. Starting in 2019 we could have the German example mostly up and running here. Is it likely to happen? No. But it could.

There are other good sources to delve into the changes made in Germany, but I would recommend reading "The Bundesliga Blueprint" by Lee Price. It's only 174 pages long but clearly shows how Germany turned around their leagues and national program. It does give a balanced view of their programs, noting not all is perfect.

https://www.amazon.ca/Bundesliga-Blueprint-Germany-Became-Football/dp/1910515329/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1507729964&sr=8-1&keywords=the+bundesliga+blueprint

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4 minutes ago, RickC said:

In several different forums on this site people have held the Bundesliga and Germany up as an examples of how to run a soccer league and national program. In the interview with Taylor Twellman (thanks SpecialK!) they raise the example of Germany failing to qualify for the World Cup, making major changes by all stakeholders, and then winning the World Cup. Forgetting about the US for a moment, maybe Canada has a golden opportunity to do just what Germany did.

It would take the CSA and CPL to do this. MLS won't (for Canada). CSA as the DFB in the example above. CPL as the Bundesliga, and CPL II (whatever name, but as maybe four regional leagues due to our country's size) as the 2. Bundesliga. Starting in 2019 we could have the German example mostly up and running here. Is it likely to happen? No. But it could.

There are other good sources to delve into the changes made in Germany, but I would recommend reading "The Bundesliga Blueprint" by Lee Price. It's only 174 pages long but clearly shows how Germany turned around their leagues and national program. It does give a balanced view of their programs, noting not all is perfect.

https://www.amazon.ca/Bundesliga-Blueprint-Germany-Became-Football/dp/1910515329/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1507729964&sr=8-1&keywords=the+bundesliga+blueprint

He mentioned their terrible showing at Euro 2000.

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3 hours ago, ray said:

So it's Australia vs Honduras?

I hope the Hondurans to play their usual tactics and the world gets to see the kind of diving and time wasting we have to put with.  It would be nice if FIFA tells CONCACAF to get their act together.

It's often 40+ degrees in Australia, and the Asian play-act as much as the Central Americans. Australia will be fine with both. But I am not sure Australia is used to getting doused with bags of piss. That may be a new experience.

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10 minutes ago, canta15 said:

Panamanian sub does the CONCACAF thing to do in the dying moments

 

Was that a ball boy or a Panama sub? CONCACAFiest thing I've ever seen (apart from time wasting in the corner during a friendly. *cough, cough El Salvador*).

Edited by Jith12

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I know it's hard to fathom for most but sometimes it's as simple as the team out there didn't get it done.

Did Canada failing at the 2006 Olympics mean we had a national hockey problem? No. We didn't call the best player in the world  because he was 18 and called a guy like Bryan McCabe because he played for Toronto. 

There aren't players being left off USA and Canada rosters who are a cut above. Remember after 2012 when we tried to flip our team? When we were naive enough to think there were guys just waiting in the wings to take over for JDG, de Rosario and Hutchinson?  Well, we had the worst year in our history scoring one goal and losing to Mauritania. 

Is the USA going to replace Bradley with Trapp? No, that would be knee jerk and stupid. They are developing players better than ever and their domestic league is growing.  The mix wasn't right and you reorganize and move on. You don't panic because mouth pieces like Lalas and Twellman are all emotional.  It was bound to happen eventually.. all the teams in the region are improving and the ball is round. 

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12 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Although now it looks like Panama qualified for the World Cup by scoring a goal which didn't even come close to crossing the goal-line,

Yep, the replays clearly show it never came close to crossing the line. They also show that a penalty should have been awarded to the Panamanians so not that big a difference really. ;)

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Yes, thank you @Keegan. Every year MLS, the USSF and CSA do more to improve internal development but there aren't buckets of money being thrown at any domestic soccer initiative like Germany has. Every MLS team has free academies, they've moved USSDA down to U14, added futsal, the French federation coaching exchange program and etc...; here in Canada we have L10, PLSQ and maybe the CPL. Of course things can get a lot better but there's been lots of incremental progress in an environment where there aren't huge revenue streams to pave the way to easy change.

Variance happens, teams get old, sometimes you don't qualify even when you have lots of quality. Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica and even Mexico have a lot of MLS players and they're all moving on.

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24 minutes ago, Jith12 said:

Was that a ball boy or a Panama sub? CONCACAFiest thing I've ever seen (apart from time wasting in the corner during a friendly. *cough, cough El Salvador*).

It was the sub. The tweet's caption was wrong

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MLS is helping the big 3 Central American nations, along with Jamaica and T&T. 

It is economics. Good players in poor countries can make more in the USA (or Canada). At the same time, those players are great value for MLS teams because they are cheap. It's a win for the clubs, a win for those players, and a loss for USA soccer. They should consider reducing the limit on international players.

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12 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I didn't see the T&T goals yet but I thought he looked really poor on that Reyna goal in the Whitecaps game a few weeks back, fwiw.  I'd be curious to know how he'd been at club level since then.

Well you only need to look at the standings to get a hint at what he has been like. Not that Colorado's position at the bottom of the league is all Howard's fault but even so if he's that good why is he playing for an almost-last-place team? Given that Arena was taking shots at the European "hotshot" countries that they would find it difficult to qualify in Concacaf, some of those countries would probably ask him when the last time one of those hotshot countries attempted to qualify with a keeper on a last or near-last place team in their country's top division? I am struggling to think of any examples of a successful qualification for one of those "hotshot" teams where the keeper they have used is on a club that is in de facto relegation territory.

This, IMO, is the biggest mistake Arena made, causing him at least two games (I'd put the game in US against Costa Rica in the same bracket - first goal should have been stopped).

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6 hours ago, Keegan said:

There aren't players being left off USA and Canada rosters who are a cut above. Remember after 2012 when we tried to flip our team? When we were naive enough to think there were guys just waiting in the wings to take over for JDG, de Rosario and Hutchinson?  Well, we had the worst year in our history scoring one goal and losing to Mauritania. 

I don't know much about USA players, but for Canada after that lost to El  Salvador I'm questioning that. We all know who are Canada's top guys are and that's not changing any time soon. But guys that are on the fence between starting and sub, that group of players I'm questioning. There are guys out in Europe and South America that haven't been call or they haven't been given a fair shot, so we don't know where they stand. 

Yes it's one game but I think it's a  Conversation that needs to be had and things need to be questioned. Does Canada's men's national team  rely on North American leagues too much? .  Are we ignoring our European talent?  Should we give  others who haven't been called them and chance ? Is Canada picking the right North American players? Are the Canadian North American club players overrated and others are under? . Why are USL guys starting for the national team ? 

I don't know the answer but I'm putting the questions

 

Edited by SpecialK

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57 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Well you only need to look at the standings to get a hint at what he has been like. Not that Colorado's position at the bottom of the league is all Howard's fault but even so if he's that good why is he playing for an almost-last-place team? Given that Arena was taking shots at the European "hotshot" countries that they would find it difficult to qualify in Concacaf, some of those countries would probably ask him when the last time one of those hotshot countries attempted to qualify with a keeper on a last or near-last place team in their country's top division? I am struggling to think of any examples of a successful qualification for one of those "hotshot" teams where the keeper they have used is on a club that is in de facto relegation territory.

This, IMO, is the biggest mistake Arena made, causing him at least two games (I'd put the game in US against Costa Rica in the same bracket - first goal should have been stopped).

Italy did qualify for the 2008 Euro starting, for half of the qualifying, a Serie B goalkeeper. 😃

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Great postings - particularly about the debate around MLS improving US soccer.  MLS is in the business of improving revenues, not the quality of US soccer players.  However, the question must be asked if MLS is paying enough money to keep some of the better players AWAY from Europe.  

Also, everyone forgets that while US and Canadian soccer improves, so does soccer everywhere else.  And money isn't the answer.  In fact, many people in the US complain about pay-to-play meaning white middle class americans are dominating soccer leagues....

More money isn't going to resolve that situation...

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1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Well you only need to look at the standings to get a hint at what he has been like. Not that Colorado's position at the bottom of the league is all Howard's fault but even so if he's that good why is he playing for an almost-last-place team? Given that Arena was taking shots at the European "hotshot" countries that they would find it difficult to qualify in Concacaf, some of those countries would probably ask him when the last time one of those hotshot countries attempted to qualify with a keeper on a last or near-last place team in their country's top division? I am struggling to think of any examples of a successful qualification for one of those "hotshot" teams where the keeper they have used is on a club that is in de facto relegation territory.

This, IMO, is the biggest mistake Arena made, causing him at least two games (I'd put the game in US against Costa Rica in the same bracket - first goal should have been stopped).

Remember when some people here were calling for the CSA to hire Arena or Klinsmann? Both would have been a mistake in particular Klinsmann, who made one good move as Germany's manager, hiring a better and more experience coach, Joachim Low as his assistant. 

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32 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

Remember when some people here were calling for the CSA to hire Arena or Klinsmann? Both would have been a mistake in particular Klinsmann, who made one good move as Germany's manager, hiring a better and more experience coach, Joachim Low as his assistant. 

Did Jürgen Klinsmann make some mistakes sure but the guy's record with the US team is pretty good 47 games 28 Wins 6 D 13 L. Winning some huge games against Italy and Mexico in Mexico for the first time. Won the gold cup in 2013, took the us team to round of 16 in 2014, surviving the "group of death. Also he changed US soccer policy on scouting duel nationals that brought in some talented players.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/america-at-large-the-immigrant-star-earning-his-stripes-1.3152415 pretty good article to read. 

During the Jurgen Klinsmann era, recruiting players of dual nationality became a cornerstone of USSF policy as he sought, in particular, to scout the Bundesliga for individuals born to American servicemen or women who’d served in Germany. It wasn’t to everybody’s liking and hardly reflected well on the quality coming through in a nation of more than three million youth players. But, by bringing on board the likes of Julian GreenJohn Brooks and Jermaine Jones, whom he regarded as superior to those grown at home, Klinsmann was simply exploiting qualification rules that have served so many nations so well."

The USA hires in him in 2011, Canada's manager was Stephen Hart an  amateur. 

 

Edited by SpecialK

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3 minutes ago, Big_M said:

The same amateur who took TT to two gold cup quarter finals and hexagonal

The same amateur who gets fired after only 3 years at the helm of TT. The same Amateur who doesn't have a job right now. The same amateur who guided Canada to a 8-1 loss. Give me a break ! Amateur coaches should NOT be coaching National Teams! 

 

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3 hours ago, Obinna said:

MLS is helping the big 3 Central American nations, along with Jamaica and T&T. 

It is economics. Good players in poor countries can make more in the USA (or Canada). At the same time, those players are great value for MLS teams because they are cheap. It's a win for the clubs, a win for those players, and a loss for USA soccer. They should consider reducing the limit on international players.

Roster rules!

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4 hours ago, Keegan said:

I know it's hard to fathom for most but sometimes it's as simple as the team out there didn't get it done.

Did Canada failing at the 2006 Olympics mean we had a national hockey problem? No. We didn't call the best player in the world  because he was 18 and called a guy like Bryan McCabe because he played for Toronto. 

There aren't players being left off USA and Canada rosters who are a cut above. Remember after 2012 when we tried to flip our team? When we were naive enough to think there were guys just waiting in the wings to take over for JDG, de Rosario and Hutchinson?  Well, we had the worst year in our history scoring one goal and losing to Mauritania. 

Is the USA going to replace Bradley with Trapp? No, that would be knee jerk and stupid. They are developing players better than ever and their domestic league is growing.  The mix wasn't right and you reorganize and move on. You don't panic because mouth pieces like Lalas and Twellman are all emotional.  It was bound to happen eventually.. all the teams in the region are improving and the ball is round. 

The best player in the world in 2006 who wasn't called was actually 22 (Eric Staal) . Crosby was okay, but not as good as Staal at the time.

Edited by Blackdude

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