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CPL General

CanPL General  

156 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the CanPL have Pro/Rel?

    • Yes
      70
    • No
      86
  2. 2. Should the CanPL have playoffs?

    • Yes
      104
    • No
      52


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Does that analogy really work? If the Bundesliga had teams in Stockholm, Gothenberg and Malmo, people would view the status of the Swedish league very differently from the way they do at the moment. Think there also needs to be some realism on this development league angle. Do soccer fans really have an issue with this when everybody that understands the sport knows that there is a pecking order and that teams from national leagues around the world are far from equal?

 If you aren't Manchester United or Barcelona your best players are going to move on at the end of their contract to other clubs where they can earn more money and play at  a higher standard, if they get other contract offers.  Nobody seemed to think any less of TFC when Mo Edu or Doneil Henry did that sort of thing. If/when CanPL does manage to launch, people will need to come to terms with the better players that emerge moving to not just European clubs, but also MLS and possibly even top independent USL teams to do just that. Excluding rebranded reserve teams isn't going to magically make CanPL the place where young Canadian players actually most want to play.

 

 

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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21 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:
Does that analogy really work?

 

No but oh well

21 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:
... Think there also needs to be some realism on this development league angle. Do soccer fans really have an issue with this when everybody that understands the sport knows that there is a pecking order and that teams from national leagues around the world are far from equal?

 If you aren't Manchester United or Barcelona your best players are going to move on at the end of their contract to other clubs where they can earn more money and play at  a higher standard, if they get other contract offers.  Nobody seemed to think any less of TFC when Mo Edu or Doneil Henry did that sort of thing. If/when CanPL does manage to launch, people will need to come to terms with the better players that emerge moving to not just European clubs, but also MLS and possibly even top independent USL teams to do just that. Excluding rebranded reserve teams isn't going to magically make CanPL the place where young Canadian players actually most want to play.

 

I think you fail to see the issue. MLS* isn't a developmental league for Europe or Mexico despite its players are free to move elsewhere. There is a drastic difference between allowing a literal reserve team into your league (even if rebranded) and having your players move to stronger leagues when ready and you taking players in on loan from other leagues.

Also I don't think you know where Canadian players (as a whole) want to play. As we've seen many players are excited by the CPL and some (such as Drew Beckie) have expressed a desire to not have the reserve sides and pretty fucking likely a large number of youngsters share this view.

*MLS has a history of letting teams from other leagues own MLS sides. These teams have been a pain in the ass but are not reserve teams and are run mostly independent of their parent club.

Edited by matty

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The original CSL deliberately weakened itself at launch by excluding two well known Toronto teams from the NSL with previous fully pro level pedigrees in the original NASL and CPSL and opted instead for the North York Rockets that had almost zero fans beyond friends and family of the players any time I went to see them play because of the ethnic team name issue. Hopefully, the similar level of dogmatism that is being shown at the moment over this reserve team issue won't be similarly damaging. It doesn't take all that many of the ten to ultimately have no viable stadium solution or to fail to secure suitable investors for this whole project to potentially fail to even get off the ground. 

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The original CSL deliberately weakened itself at launch by excluding two well known Toronto teams from the NSL with previous fully pro level pedigrees in the original NASL and CPSL and opted instead for the North York Rockets that had almost zero fans beyond friends and family of the players any time I went to see them play because of the ethnic team name issue. Hopefully, the similar level of dogmatism that is being shown at the moment over this reserve team issue won't be similarly damaging.

TFC2 and Whitecaps 2 have very few fans (like the North York Rockets) and this league already has richer ownership than the CSL had so I don't think you can compare it to that league. The only real reason to push for them to be in the league is so you can have MLSE as an owner, other than that there's very little reason to want them as badly as you do.

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It doesn't take all that many of the ten to ultimately have no viable stadium solution or to fail to secure suitable investors for this whole project to potentially fail to even get off the ground. 

They've vetted them down from 16 so I'm sure these 10 are their best bets on solid teams. They also seem sure that the league can work with as few as 6 teams. How they can work with just 6 I don't know but they seem sure of it and if your sure they'll be fine without TV and as a gate league then maybe you should have some faith that they're sure not having TFC2 is a good thing (cause no TV is far worse than not having reserve sides).

Anyways this issue is for now settled so leave it.

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Expanding our player pool is crucial, think of it like this: With 8 teams (25 players each) that's 200 professional soccer players available for the CMNT! 

We have around 100-120 combined in North America (MLS, NASL, USL) and European leagues, mostly in the lower tiers. 

Anyhow the very best of the best NCAA, CIS Canadians can execute in the CPL

Not too mention everyone else playing Academy Football who usually fall through the cracks 

So in my opinion, don't tell me that this league cannot fill every single roster spot with Canadians because we can

Obviously it won't be like that but I think 75-80% is a great number 

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I just don't see the connectivity between the two issues.  Everyone following the news has come to grips that CPL will not be on par with MLS at launch.  So, yes, there will be players that likely make the jump from CPL to MLS.  Then again, they will likely make the jump to other independent leagues as well.  That is the reality of running a lower level league.  Thus the Sweden Germany analogy.

But none of that relates to the issue of reserve sides, which has been settled for a while.  

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It is 30 years too late on having Toronto Italia and/or Croatia playing against the Blizzard in a coast to coast national league rather than the North York Rockets. Having more interest in the GTA rather than alienating a large portion of its soccer community probably would have helped the CSL hang in there when the recession of the early 90s hit, so it is more a point of drawing lessons from the past. The point was more that a league that is struggling to put the numbers needed together (I think we have been told a launch announcement was imminent by the usual suspects since at least the summer of 2015 now), isn't in a position to be turning away strong groups that are ready, willing and able to participate and that ideological purity leads to division and infighting when a Canadian league really needs everbody agreeing on a compromise and pushing in the same direction to succeed.  

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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Nothing major but MLS.com has a quote from OZ referencing the CPL  https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/10/08/zambrano-calls-more-depth-competition-canada-look-ahead-2022

  • The former LA Galaxy coach believes the newly-sanctioned Canadian Premier League can help in this regard when it debuts in 2018 or 2019, providing more opportunities for Canadian players and giving him a chance to track more national-team talent.

    “That’s going to give us the ability to look at Canadian players play week-to-week,” Zambrano said on Sunday. “As a country, as a coach, we don’t have that luxury.”

    Establishing a Canadian league by 2019 is “very important for us,” he noted, adding that he also hopes to see Canadian players earning more minutes for the nation’s three MLS clubs.

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17 hours ago, Macksam said:

Got some clarification on Brampton CPL. 

I got an email from the people who run the website. It was a response to a question I had about the make up and structure of their ownership group. Here it is:

 

“The Ownership will not be offered to the Public . Group is owned by Business professional in the Brampton Area.”

How is that not Futballer?

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On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎06 at 1:57 PM, shermanator said:

 

 

That's what I expected the Can PL will eventually be. See BBTB, that's how they will appease the bigger markets, by eventually moving to an open market system. Maybe now that PB has reaffirmed that, it will get him to accept it.

Now, I just need to design an mobile APP, sell it for billions so I can build a 48,000 seat stadium in Brampton and create North America's version of AFC Ajax. Gotta tighten up my C++ and Unity skills.

Edited by Macksam

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7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It is 30 years too late on having Toronto Italia and/or Croatia playing against the Blizzard in a coast to coast national league rather than the North York Rockets. Having more interest in the GTA rather than alienating a large portion of its soccer community probably would have helped the CSL hang in there when the recession of the early 90s hit, so it is more a point of drawing lessons from the past. The point was more that a league that is struggling to put the numbers needed together (I think we have been told a launch announcement was imminent by the usual suspects since at least the summer of 2015 now), isn't in a position to be turning away strong groups that are ready, willing and able to participate and that ideological purity leads to division and infighting when a Canadian league really needs everbody agreeing on a compromise and pushing in the same direction to succeed.  

From PB's comments I think it's clear they have the numbers, they are just delayed by stadium approval situations beyond their control. It would be short sighted to compromise the integrity of the league forever because we have to wait for shovels to hit the soil. 

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11 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...The point was more that a league that is struggling to put the numbers needed together (I think we have been told a launch announcement was imminent by the usual suspects since at least the summer of 2015 now), isn't in a position to be turning away strong groups that are ready, willing and able to participate and that ideological purity leads to division and infighting when a Canadian league really needs everbody agreeing on a compromise and pushing in the same direction to succeed.  

 

The counterpoint is that the level and kind of compromise you are talking about can be viewed as a massive concession in terms of the ceiling for, and identity of, the league.  Admittedly, a pro-rel scenario might eventually allow room for reserve teams in the overall structure without pigeon-holing the identity of the league, but out of the gates the idea of including stable MLS reserve sides (that do not themselves draw crowds) at launch is simply not worth it.  

I would far rather they stick to the vision of an independent, non-reserve league and take the time necessary to make it happen (even if the pacing isn't to our liking) than compromise the identity of the league by including MLS reserve sides in an effort to get a quick win.  And from what I have read, it seems like most on here agree, as do league organizers.  

 

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36 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

 the idea of including stable MLS reserve sides 

Frankly, they don't even seem to be very stable at this point. Obviously the MLS sides are stable, but the reserve teams will be cut if the cost/benefit analysis doesn't suit the front office, as it seems to have occurred in Montreal and Vancouver. Imagine if CPL had launched with VWC II, the league could be looking at its first contraction almost immediately 

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I was trying to be a bit generous in my treatment of his point, but yeah, that makes it an even worse idea.  I am just not sure how the idea of including (potentially disposable) MLS reserve sides in CPL could be seen as a good idea.  Maybe it does from their perspective in terms of providing a better market/league for them to provide them with stability, but the idea of using Canadian footy frastrucure to further strengthen an essentially US league is exactly what we are trying yo get away from.  We have aleady given them our top 3 markets - doubling down on MLS via CPL seems ill advised.

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15 minutes ago, matty said:

Either a failed soccer businessman or a troll

Can clearly see why you all player hating, Footballer 50/50  investor/owner of Brampton stallions  of then Canadian  Soccer league. went on own a year later purchase rights to  operates Caribbean Selects in the Canadian Soccer league International Division:  

There after i developed a business plan for a Canadian national Soccer league , submit this plan to the Canadian Soccer Association, kevan Pipe  before his departure, resubmit another plan to CSA new president whom sanctioned the  Business plan Canadian premier League/ C-League  before his departure also. 

Futballer also acquired the services of Major league Soccer first  Commissioner to roll out the Business plan  as Mr. Logan would be the most experience soccer mind in North America capable of  creating the Impact that is needed .  

 

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1 hour ago, Futballer said:

Can clearly see why you all player hating, Footballer 50/50  investor/owner of Brampton stallions  of then Canadian  Soccer league. went on own a year later purchase rights to  operates Caribbean Selects in the Canadian Soccer league International Division:  

There after i developed a business plan for a Canadian national Soccer league , submit this plan to the Canadian Soccer Association, kevan Pipe  before his departure, resubmit another plan to CSA new president whom sanctioned the  Business plan Canadian premier League/ C-League  before his departure also. 

Futballer also acquired the services of Major league Soccer first  Commissioner to roll out the Business plan  as Mr. Logan would be the most experience soccer mind in North America capable of  creating the Impact that is needed .  

 

Cryptic third-person references aside, is there a public/online confirmation of the role you have played (or claim to have played)?  I haven't followed the narrative, but I have seen you reference the idea that you have been deeply involved in conversations re CPL - or at least some iteration of something similar.  But I haven't seen anything that seems like proof of those claims.  Given people's capacity to exaggerate on the Internet, especially when anonymity is the norm, I think people's skepticism is understandable.  Can you provide anything that would confirm your claims or that you have played a role?  And I mean a real role (no offense, but anyone can draft so,etching they call a "business plan" and send it in the mail).

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17 hours ago, Futballer said:

Can clearly see why you all player hating, Footballer 50/50  investor/owner of Brampton stallions  of then Canadian  Soccer league. went on own a year later purchase rights to  operates Caribbean Selects in the Canadian Soccer league International Division:  

There after i developed a business plan for a Canadian national Soccer league , submit this plan to the Canadian Soccer Association, kevan Pipe  before his departure, resubmit another plan to CSA new president whom sanctioned the  Business plan Canadian premier League/ C-League  before his departure also. 

Futballer also acquired the services of Major league Soccer first  Commissioner to roll out the Business plan  as Mr. Logan would be the most experience soccer mind in North America capable of  creating the Impact that is needed .  

 

I love how soccer is so global that we all get labelled playa haters on a Canadian soccer forum for a league that has not yet kicked a ball.

Sir, have you considered taking your enthusiasm and entrepreneurial experience to League1 Ontario. There may be a number of opportunities there for those who prove themselves worthy, good luck.

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5 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

I love how soccer is so global that we all get labelled playa haters on a Canadian soccer forum for a league that has not yet kicked a ball.

Sir, have you considered taking your enthusiasm and entrepreneurial experience to League1 Ontario. There may be a number of opportunities there for those who prove themselves worthy, good luck.

Here is enthusiasm, the moment you are able to accomplish  any of the task  that  i have  accomplished then you can  hold such conversation  with me. if you are only an errand boy then play your role. If you haven't  done what i have done, why would you wanna hate on some with my track record of contributing to the game of Semi-pro and Professional Soccer for the last 30 years . 

No ! wonder why it`s taking so long for other investors to  buy in to our Professional  League.  with so much disrespect to those who are actually financial  contributors to the game of Soccer in Canada, we have folks hiding behind there key board talking trash about  potential investors. 

  

 

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