shermanator

Cyle Larin

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Starting a new thread since the "Congrats to Cyle Larin on MLS Rookie Record" thread doesn't really apply anymore. Orlando City announced today that Cyle Larin has received his green card, and now counts as a domestic league wide. I guess that means he will stay in Orlando for at least one more year. Not that it really matters, because he was good enough to fill up an international spot, but it's still news.

Also, this means that Tyler Pasher and Richie Laryea are the only Canadians that fill up international spots in MLS.

 

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Unfortunately there is a lot of very general discussion in that thread, unrelated to the MLS Rookie record, that is lost from view by creating a new thread. Would it not have been better to just rename the other one?

Anyway, here is a link to that previous thread:

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/forums/topic/28600-congrats-to-cyle-larin-on-mls-rookie-record/

There is also some general Larin discussion in this thread, some of it related to his scoring stats:

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/forums/topic/29706-we-need-a-finisher/

 

Edited by dsqpr

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Another article on Larin's European ambitions, this one with a little more focus on Larin.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/soccer/cyle-larin-has-big-soccer-dreams-hopes-to-play-in-europe-when-time-is-right-411334155.html

"I've always wanted to play in Europe — either it's now or it's later ," the 21-year-old from Brampton, Ont., told a recent

MLS media roundtable in Manhattan Beach, Calif. "But I think when the time is right, I'll go.

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25 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

...and Larin scores in the home opener.

If only he were that prolific when he plays for Canada.

My take is that CONCACAF is a higher level than MLS and he has yet to make the transition. With a move to Europe he might get the chance play at a higher level week in and week out and perhaps make the step up.

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2 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

If only he were that prolific when he plays for Canada.

My take is that CONCACAF is a higher level than MLS and he has yet to make the transition. With a move to Europe he might get the chance play at a higher level week in and week out and perhaps make the step up.

I don't think Floro's system did him many favors either.

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53 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

I don't think Floro's system did him many favors either.

 

29 minutes ago, Soccerpro said:

Larin misses chances for Canada that he routinely buries in MLS.

It was a mix of both for sure

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1 hour ago, Soccerpro said:

Larin misses chances for Canada that he routinely buries in MLS.

I think he simply gets more chances in MLS.

When he gets a handful of chances with Orlando and only scores 1 (like today), people remember the goal, not the missed chances.

When he only gets 1 or 2 chances per game with Canada and doesn't convert, he looks less prolific. 

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14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think he simply gets more chances in MLS.

When he gets a handful of chances with Orlando and only scores 1 (like today), people remember the goal, not the missed chances.

When he only gets 1 or 2 chances per game with Canada and doesn't convert, he looks less prolific. 

I mentioned this after watching one of the Orlando games last season. He scored 2 goals that game but missed like 5 or 6 other chances and people were dismissive, but honestly i think the guy gets a ridiculous amount of chances for Orlando and that's why he scores so much despite his conversion rate being probably only above average. Another post i mentioned the GF and GA numbers for Orlando, their GF were 4th in the league and GA was dead last. Orlando have an offensive minded midfield that skews the scoring numbers up at both ends of the field.

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9 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

I mentioned this after watching one of the Orlando games last season. He scored 2 goals that game but missed like 5 or 6 other chances and people were dismissive, but honestly i think the guy gets a ridiculous amount of chances for Orlando and that's why he scores so much despite his conversion rate being probably only above average. Another post i mentioned the GF and GA numbers for Orlando, their GF were 4th in the league and GA was dead last. Orlando have an offensive minded midfield that skews the scoring numbers up at both ends of the field.

He also puts himself in position very well. Lots of MLS level target men would be standing at the end of that cross instead of making a well timed run. I agree that he gets great service, but he definitely plays a big part in creating those chances

Edited by Complete Homer
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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think he simply gets more chances in MLS.

When he gets a handful of chances with Orlando and only scores 1 (like today), people remember the goal, not the missed chances.

When he only gets 1 or 2 chances per game with Canada and doesn't convert, he looks less prolific. 

Well, that is the very definition of "less prolific"!

And the number of chances you get reflect your ability at that level (as well as your conversion rate, of course).

Edited by dsqpr
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10 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think he simply gets more chances in MLS.

When he gets a handful of chances with Orlando and only scores 1 (like today), people remember the goal, not the missed chances.

When he only gets 1 or 2 chances per game with Canada and doesn't convert, he looks less prolific. 

With the US obsession with sports statistics, I am sure someone has crunched the numbers to show the conversion rate for MLS strikers - so it should be possible to show if this is actually the case.

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Yeah, it's amazing how sophisticated North American analysis became quite quickly. I think North Americans tend to be more comfortable with math and stats than Europeans. Probably also has to do with the demographics who watch soccer in each area.

Anyways, Larin's goals - expected goals last year was 2.16 and 6.55 in 215 (!), meaning that he finishes chances at a higher rate than league-average. That bodes well for him moving to a higher level.

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Someone posted this detail on Reddit/MLS last year and Larin was one of the best finishers in the league.

i actually will disagree with most here - I don't think he has missed that many chances with the National team. Yes, there are a few infamous chances that he blew (the Gold Cup EL Salvador miss obviously) but overall we create so few chances that his misses get exasperated.

Edited by Floortom

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1 hour ago, Floortom said:

Someone posted this detail on Reddit/MLS last year and Larin was one of the best finishers in the league.

i actually will disagree with most here - I don't think he has missed that many chances with the National team. Yes, there are a few infamous chances that he blew (the Gold Cup EL Salvador miss obviously) but overall we create so few chances that his misses get exasperated.

Yeah, he missed that El Salvador one in the Gold Cup, so that sticks out in people's memory. He also had one awkward shot with the outside of his foot, maybe against Honduras? I can't recall what that game was. I think he headed one off the crossbar once. Oh yeah, and he has scored 5 times, but think of all those missed chances!!!

 

14 hours ago, dsqpr said:

And the number of chances you get reflect your ability at that level

Not just your personal ability, I think the teams you are playing with and against play a role in this too.

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28 minutes ago, Kent said:

Yeah, he missed that El Salvador one in the Gold Cup, so that sticks out in people's memory. He also had one awkward shot with the outside of his foot, maybe against Honduras? I can't recall what that game was. I think he headed one off the crossbar once. Oh yeah, and he has scored 5 times, but think of all those missed chances!!!

 

Not just your personal ability, I think the teams you are playing with and against play a role in this too.

The outside foot miss was at home vs Mexico.

And the crossbar "miss" was at El Salvador in the nil-nil draw. I actually don't have that as a "miss" -he did well to get a head on it and nearly put it in.

Kent likes this

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13 minutes ago, Floortom said:

The outside foot miss was at home vs Mexico.

And the crossbar "miss" was at El Salvador in the nil-nil draw. I actually don't have that as a "miss" -he did well to get a head on it and nearly put it in.

Thanks, couldn't remember that it was against Mexico. I agree with the crossbar assessment. I was amazed he did that much, but I imagine there are some people that think he should have put it in (it seems like a lot of people don't understand how much harder it is to head a ball downwards than it is upwards, in particular when battling someone else for that ball).

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Maybe the fact he has better players around him rather than the opposition is a reason so far he has been doing well at the club level versus national team level. I don't think national teams of El Salvador or Panama or even Honduras are any better than an MLS team, a lot of these Central American players are playing in the MLS.

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In a national team you have zero time to get a team to gel, and our pool is limited. Meaning you have to make things work when maybe you are missing a few pieces. Then, in training, you have to start with defensive system and positional play, the striking is the last thing you think of. Not just us, most national teams.

If the national coach decides Larin is our striker, we have to play for him. At Orlando, from the day he was subbed in for another's injury 6 games into his first season, he has performed. So they believe in him, they play for him. And he has Kaka feeding him, others too. We may have tried, but then, it doesn't work, and that is that. 

Striking especially cannot be trained. Chances on goal can, finishing can't. Canada has to continue to try to stay in games, stay close, then make sure it is training to get chances --on free kicks, wing play, fast countering, long ball, messy air balls into the box, who cares. Unless you think, well, Larin, he needs us to play this or that way (half of those examples actually work for him). 

EDIT: there is one thing I am wrong about, training to strike. A striker CAN train to be better, no doubt. He can work on all sorts of things, like quick release, picking corners, free kicks, dribbling the keeper. He can work on short bursts of speed, or his wrong foot. He can stay after practice and work over and over on these things, ask the third-string keeper to stay a while to help, kids from the B team. I am just saying you are not going to get a coach doing it for him. Rarely will a coach help a striker finish per se (I remember Bobby Robson coaching Barça, having them practice shots from outside the box, yelling "Go!!" like mad as they shot, the players thinking he was nuts, since that was very old school), more like he'll work on positioning, on mentality, on confidence, things like that.

 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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