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Look at the start of the video of that headed goal. Three defenders around Fleming all ball watching. Meanwhile Fleming isn't even looking at the ball, she's running into the open space where the ball is eventually crossed into. 

Might be too early for this, but I hope she's actually challenged in NCAA. 

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I guess my post in the FIFA Rankings thread belongs here now:

I am a huge fan of young Jesse Fleming. That girl is oozing the kind of skill that our top teams have been crying out for for decades - the playmaker skill that can unlock defences and create goals. Her set up of the second against Brazil was sublime: blood and guts to win possession in the first place and then a real visionary and sublimely weighted pass to release Rose in the box to set up Sinclair. In a couple of years she could be the best female midfielder in the World. And that is just one! Beckie, Lawrence, Buchanan, and Rose , to mention 4, are also all much more than promising!

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22 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

Look at the start of the video of that headed goal. Three defenders around Fleming all ball watching. Meanwhile Fleming isn't even looking at the ball, she's running into the open space where the ball is eventually crossed into. 

Might be too early for this, but I hope she's actually challenged in NCAA. 

Yes, finding space in the box is what you need to do when anticipating a cross and she did that very well.

Ball watching is more common than you might think - just watch a few QPR matches if you don't believe me! (It is also called zonal defending although that was clearly not the case in the clip above.)

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14 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Yes, finding space in the box is what you need to do when anticipating a cross and she did that very well.

Ball watching is more common than you might think - just watch a few QPR matches if you don't believe me! (It is also called zonal defending although that was clearly not the case in the clip above.)

Well I think ball watching is very common. Comment on the defenders more about describing the action and contrasting it to Fleming's than on the uniqueness of the situation. 

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2 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

Well I think ball watching is very common. Comment on the defenders more about describing the action and contrasting it to Fleming's than on the uniqueness of the situation. 

Ha ha, we always seem to be at crossed purposes Rob!

Your original post commented on the ball watching defenders (we can agree that was poor defending!) and immediately followed with the comment that you hope the league will be able to challenge Jesse - implying that these defenders weren't up to challenging her.

I was merely saying that although they defended poorly on that cross, that doesn't necessarily mean they are poor defenders or not up to the job of challenging her, as even good defenders can and do get caught ball watching sometimes.

Fleming obviously got the better of them on that occasion but you don't have to look far to find many similar goals - or similar situations where the same defenders do a good job of winning the header.

And I'm sure we can also agree that she is a great talent and that the way she ghosted into space to score that goal illustrates yet another string to her bow.

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13 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Ha ha, we always seem to be at crossed purposes Rob!

Your original post commented on the ball watching defenders (we can agree that was poor defending!) and immediately followed with the comment that you hope the league will be able to challenge Jesse - implying that these defenders weren't up to challenging her.

I was merely saying that although they defended poorly on that cross, that doesn't necessarily mean they are poor defenders or not up to the job of challenging her, as even good defenders can and do get caught ball watching sometimes.

Fleming obviously got the better of them on that occasion but you don't have to look far to find many similar goals - or similar situations where the same defenders do a good job of winning the header.

And I'm sure we can also agree that she is a great talent and that the way she ghosted into space to score that goal illustrates yet another string to her bow.

Oh I totally agree. Plus I should have more clearly indicated that I was purposefully being a bit silly with my 'challenge' comment. After one game there's not nearly enough data to figure out her level on the NCAA landscape, even if I suspect she's going to rip it up.

Having said that, some of the other highlights from that game are great. She leaves several defenders for dead and is clearly brimming with confidence. 

'Oh. We're playing Stanford today? Ya. That's cool. I just started against BRAZIL.'

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[video ]

[/video ]

 

This is a recap from the UCLA Bruins page on that game. 

http://www.uclabruins.com/news/2016/8/28/womens-soccer-ucla-falls-to-florida-in-ot-heartbreaker.aspx?path=wsoc

Wondered if you guys are keeping track of this gifted youngster and it looks like you are. She simply blew everyone away with her debut today. Came in on Friday and on Sunday she got called to action. Bossed the midfield and took control of it and picked up 2 goals as well.

I want to give an idea of what was happening. With Jessie Fleming arriving just on Friday, I think Coach Amanda Cromwell wanted to ease Fleming's transition onto the team. This is how a college season works. Every week they play 2 matches on Friday and Sunday. Saturday is used as a recovery day since they have to play the next day. For Fleming, she had no practice or scrimmage with her new team. So she didn't know the system, didn't know the players yet.

My take was that Cromwell was going to give her a week before she played her but things changed on Sunday when the Florida Gators came into town and took it to the Bruins. They were up 2-1 in the first half and that set up Jessie Fleming's introduction to the college scene.

In College, rules are a bit different then you would see normally. For instance, the way they track time is combined not separate. And as one half ends, the other half continues the time upwards. There is no extra or stoppage time in college. Once the half or 90 minutes are up, the game is over. Unless there is an injury then time is stopped or if a game is tied, then they go into overtime. 2 overtimes of 10 minutes each. And the Golden goal rule is in effect. First team to score wins or its a draw at the end of 20 minutes. 

Substitutions are also very different. College rules allow for free substitutions so that means that teams can freely sub as many players as they want with some limitations. Players in the first half can only be subbed once, once they get subbed out, they cannot return in the first half. In the second half, if they start it, they can be subbed off but can return at a later date. The reason why they have such a complicated substitution rule is to allow coaches to manage the minutes they give their players since they play 2 matches in 3 days which can be hard on a team. 

In Fleming's case, she got subbed in late in the first half. She then started the second half but was never subbed off. With the Florida Gators up 2-1 over UCLA and the Gators causing a lot of problems for them for possession of the ball, Fleming got subbed in. And she changed the entire game. I guess you can call it the Fleming show. In the second half, she got control of possession and helped set up a break out for UCLA and that player got pulled down in the box. UCLA got a penalty kick out of it and they sent one of their senior players to take the spot kick. Her shot got saved by the Florida keeper but a few minutes later in a span of 4 minutes, Fleming would head a goal in when UCLA sent a ball into the box via a throw in and then another UCLA player would be pulled down in the box. This time, Fleming was given the spot kick to take and she took it and converted it. 

Now think about that. Jessie Fleming, a freshman a rookie for all intents was given that spot kick. Normally in college you would almost never see that happen. Its usually given to a 4 year senior or someone the coach trusts. But Fleming picked up the second penalty kick and scored. This showed you that the coaches were already willing to trust her with that task. 

I have no doubt that Fleming was going to be a starter but the growth in responsibilities already this match was very revealing. 

1) Fleming was subbed into a game with players she has no practice with, no scrimmages. These players were complete strangers to her. 

2) Yet despite this, she fit in, she was constantly keeping the ball at her feet, looking for players to link up with and making runs for balls where she assumed they would be sending them to. That isn't normal for any freshman player to do. It takes a lot of practices for freshman to get to know the players and to get to know the system the team plays. Fleming fit in. 

3) The trust the coaches gave her, grew as the match progressed. Most players would be subbed off in the second half to rest them or to bring new energy to the line up. Fleming was never subbed out after she came into the game. She became a key cog for the midfield for UCLA and because of that, players that used to be in that role were being subbed out. Remember UCLA has already played several matches into the season. Fleming has come in with the College season in full swing. The team has already gelled and the chemistry could have been disrupted with Fleming being introduced without any practice together. Yet Fleming took control of the midfield... Think on that. That showed leadership for a first year player. 

Kinda blew my mind away. And the game would eventually be won by the Florida Gators in overtime when a ball shot in would ping pong between 2 UCLA defenders and an own goal would end it. Tough way to end a spectacular debut by Jessie Fleming. I have never witnessed a debut from a freshman like this. Again mind blown away.

I have to give John Herdman a lot of credit. He took the courageous route of going young. Half the Canadian Olympic roster was 23 and younger. He found gifted players like Fleming, Buchanan, Lawrence, Beckie, Sheridan who is a goal keeper with Clemson and my opinion the best keeper in college at the moment. This is a core you can build on and you also have Quinn, Rose and Carle and who knows who else Herdman will dig up. Its been quite impressive, the future looks much brighter with what he has done. I remember the previous Canadian WNT coach saying the Canadian system has no talent and maybe at that time she may have been right. But you have to develop those players and it takes years to do this. 

If you guys plan on keeping track of Fleming, then I will be back with more youtube updates. Fleming is that special player that comes every once in a while. People on twitter are calling her Messi and why not, she is sublime with the ball at her feet. 

 

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2 hours ago, Forgedias said:

[video ]

[/video ]

 

This is a recap from the UCLA Bruins page on that game. 

http://www.uclabruins.com/news/2016/8/28/womens-soccer-ucla-falls-to-florida-in-ot-heartbreaker.aspx?path=wsoc

Wondered if you guys are keeping track of this gifted youngster and it looks like you are. She simply blew everyone away with her debut today. Came in on Friday and on Sunday she got called to action. Bossed the midfield and took control of it and picked up 2 goals as well.

I want to give an idea of what was happening. With Jessie Fleming arriving just on Friday, I think Coach Amanda Cromwell wanted to ease Fleming's transition onto the team. This is how a college season works. Every week they play 2 matches on Friday and Sunday. Saturday is used as a recovery day since they have to play the next day. For Fleming, she had no practice or scrimmage with her new team. So she didn't know the system, didn't know the players yet.

My take was that Cromwell was going to give her a week before she played her but things changed on Sunday when the Florida Gators came into town and took it to the Bruins. They were up 2-1 in the first half and that set up Jessie Fleming's introduction to the college scene.

In College, rules are a bit different then you would see normally. For instance, the way they track time is combined not separate. And as one half ends, the other half continues the time upwards. There is no extra or stoppage time in college. Once the half or 90 minutes are up, the game is over. Unless there is an injury then time is stopped or if a game is tied, then they go into overtime. 2 overtimes of 10 minutes each. And the Golden goal rule is in effect. First team to score wins or its a draw at the end of 20 minutes. 

Substitutions are also very different. College rules allow for free substitutions so that means that teams can freely sub as many players as they want with some limitations. Players in the first half can only be subbed once, once they get subbed out, they cannot return in the first half. In the second half, if they start it, they can be subbed off but can return at a later date. The reason why they have such a complicated substitution rule is to allow coaches to manage the minutes they give their players since they play 2 matches in 3 days which can be hard on a team. 

In Fleming's case, she got subbed in late in the first half. She then started the second half but was never subbed off. With the Florida Gators up 2-1 over UCLA and the Gators causing a lot of problems for them for possession of the ball, Fleming got subbed in. And she changed the entire game. I guess you can call it the Fleming show. In the second half, she got control of possession and helped set up a break out for UCLA and that player got pulled down in the box. UCLA got a penalty kick out of it and they sent one of their senior players to take the spot kick. Her shot got saved by the Florida keeper but a few minutes later in a span of 4 minutes, Fleming would head a goal in when UCLA sent a ball into the box via a throw in and then another UCLA player would be pulled down in the box. This time, Fleming was given the spot kick to take and she took it and converted it. 

Now think about that. Jessie Fleming, a freshman a rookie for all intents was given that spot kick. Normally in college you would almost never see that happen. Its usually given to a 4 year senior or someone the coach trusts. But Fleming picked up the second penalty kick and scored. This showed you that the coaches were already willing to trust her with that task. 

I have no doubt that Fleming was going to be a starter but the growth in responsibilities already this match was very revealing. 

1) Fleming was subbed into a game with players she has no practice with, no scrimmages. These players were complete strangers to her. 

2) Yet despite this, she fit in, she was constantly keeping the ball at her feet, looking for players to link up with and making runs for balls where she assumed they would be sending them to. That isn't normal for any freshman player to do. It takes a lot of practices for freshman to get to know the players and to get to know the system the team plays. Fleming fit in. 

3) The trust the coaches gave her, grew as the match progressed. Most players would be subbed off in the second half to rest them or to bring new energy to the line up. Fleming was never subbed out after she came into the game. She became a key cog for the midfield for UCLA and because of that, players that used to be in that role were being subbed out. Remember UCLA has already played several matches into the season. Fleming has come in with the College season in full swing. The team has already gelled and the chemistry could have been disrupted with Fleming being introduced without any practice together. Yet Fleming took control of the midfield... Think on that. That showed leadership for a first year player. 

Kinda blew my mind away. And the game would eventually be won by the Florida Gators in overtime when a ball shot in would ping pong between 2 UCLA defenders and an own goal would end it. Tough way to end a spectacular debut by Jessie Fleming. I have never witnessed a debut from a freshman like this. Again mind blown away.

I have to give John Herdman a lot of credit. He took the courageous route of going young. Half the Canadian Olympic roster was 23 and younger. He found gifted players like Fleming, Buchanan, Lawrence, Beckie, Sheridan who is a goal keeper with Clemson and my opinion the best keeper in college at the moment. This is a core you can build on and you also have Quinn, Rose and Carle and who knows who else Herdman will dig up. Its been quite impressive, the future looks much brighter with what he has done. I remember the previous Canadian WNT coach saying the Canadian system has no talent and maybe at that time she may have been right. But you have to develop those players and it takes years to do this. 

If you guys plan on keeping track of Fleming, then I will be back with more youtube updates. Fleming is that special player that comes every once in a while. People on twitter are calling her Messi and why not, she is sublime with the ball at her feet. 

 

This is quite the synopsis! Thanks for sharing. 

I think it goes without saying that everyone that follows women's soccer in Canada are very keen to hear any details about Fleming, and certainly we are more than aware of her as she made her full national team debut years ago already. Not completely surprised that she slotted into the midfield seemlessly or didn't require a sub as she has an impressive soccer IQ and is match fit to go a full 90 having just come off the Olympic tournament (plus she is also a very good track athlete and runs distances I believe). 

Regardless, thanks for the post. If you haven't seen them already she's got some great highlights from the Olympics, especially our 2nd goal vs Brazil in the bronze medal game. 

On a different note, it sounds like some NCAA soccer changes are on the way for length of season? Any rule changes on the way too that you're aware of?

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Fitness also not surprising because of her cross-country running background.  Wasn't she OFSAA champion as well or at least competed?  (Ontario high school provincial championships)  Seems to me she stayed behind one tournament to compete in running for her high school a couple of years ago.  Amazing individual.

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10 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

This is quite the synopsis! Thanks for sharing. 

I think it goes without saying that everyone that follows women's soccer in Canada are very keen to hear any details about Fleming, and certainly we are more than aware of her as she made her full national team debut years ago already. Not completely surprised that she slotted into the midfield seemlessly or didn't require a sub as she has an impressive soccer IQ and is match fit to go a full 90 having just come off the Olympic tournament (plus she is also a very good track athlete and runs distances I believe). 

Regardless, thanks for the post. If you haven't seen them already she's got some great highlights from the Olympics, especially our 2nd goal vs Brazil in the bronze medal game. 

On a different note, it sounds like some NCAA soccer changes are on the way for length of season? Any rule changes on the way too that you're aware of?

Anyone that loves to see players display this kind of technical talent, should be watching her in college. She is amazing.

But to talk about the College season in general. There is a lot of talk to modify the length of the season since the entire soccer season is 3 months long. Teams play about 20 matches over that stretch and then you add another month if you make it into the NCAA tournament. Much of this is revolving on the men's side which is understandable because of the pressures associated with Major League Soccer.

What is happening is that the MLS academies are recruiting the same players that College programs are going after and with the compressed schedule from the 3 month season, its very difficult for College programs in general to compete against offers from MLS teams.

Their idea which has been around for a few years now is to move the College season in Fall and Spring and have a 25 game schedule. With playoffs in May going into June with the Championships. It would allow Colleges to only play one match a week and stretch out the entire academic year. This would allow more development for the players because right now Colleges are restricted from holding more practices and scrimmages outside their season.

These changes from what I am reading are only going to effect the Men's side in College. The women's and the rest of the divisions below the Men's Division 1 soccer would say the same. I don't know if any of these changes will happen, there are articles on about the NCAA D1 Council and how hard changes would happen because they are focused on the revenue sports like Football and Basketball. In fact the changes I wrote about are what they wanted to do this season in the 2016-2017 season. So you can see how difficult things are going.

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45 minutes ago, Forgedias said:

Anyone that loves to see players display this kind of technical talent, should be watching her in college. She is amazing.

But to talk about the College season in general. There is a lot of talk to modify the length of the season since the entire soccer season is 3 months long. Teams play about 20 matches over that stretch and then you add another month if you make it into the NCAA tournament. Much of this is revolving on the men's side which is understandable because of the pressures associated with Major League Soccer.

What is happening is that the MLS academies are recruiting the same players that College programs are going after and with the compressed schedule from the 3 month season, its very difficult for College programs in general to compete against offers from MLS teams.

Their idea which has been around for a few years now is to move the College season in Fall and Spring and have a 25 game schedule. With playoffs in May going into June with the Championships. It would allow Colleges to only play one match a week and stretch out the entire academic year. This would allow more development for the players because right now Colleges are restricted from holding more practices and scrimmages outside their season.

These changes from what I am reading are only going to effect the Men's side in College. The women's and the rest of the divisions below the Men's Division 1 soccer would say the same. I don't know if any of these changes will happen, there are articles on about the NCAA D1 Council and how hard changes would happen because they are focused on the revenue sports like Football and Basketball. In fact the changes I wrote about are what they wanted to do this season in the 2016-2017 season. So you can see how difficult things are going.

Interesting stuff. Thanks!

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http://equalizersoccer.com/2016/08/28/jessie-fleming-scores-twice-trick-ucla-debut-ncaa-video/

Here is a link to a website devoted to women's football. Most caters to the American side, NWSL, some women's college but there is some Canadian content thrown in as well. If you haven't heard of it its called Equalizer Soccer. Good site with a small rabid community but they can be very biased which is understandable.

On the comments thread, many were wondering why nothing was said about the American player Savannah Jordan who scored 2 goals in that game as well and played very well. The article was about Jessie Fleming's amazing debut not about the game which I did try to clear up. Glad they covered some of the college scene which is normally a very minor part of the site.

Edited by Forgedias

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I would like to say that I emphatically object to the "Canadian Marta" tag on this "Jesse Fleming" thread.

Marta is an odious individual. She is not only a very dirty player but is also one of the biggest cheats and whiners I have ever seen. Jesse Fleming is none of these things - quite the opposite in fact. I realize the tag is referring to Marta's skill but you cannot separate the player from the person.

How about changing it to "Female Messi". I like that much better. Not only is it more complimentary to her skill but Messi is also a person that any player would be proud to emulate.

Edited by dsqpr
Female Messi

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13 hours ago, Forgedias said:

http://equalizersoccer.com/2016/08/28/jessie-fleming-scores-twice-trick-ucla-debut-ncaa-video/

Here is a link to a website devoted to women's football. Most caters to the American side, NWSL, some women's college but there is some Canadian content thrown in as well. If you haven't heard of it its called Equalizer Soccer. Good site with a small rabid community but they can be very biased which is understandable.

On the comments thread, many were wondering why nothing was said about the American player Savannah Jordan who scored 2 goals in that game as well and played very well. The article was about Jessie Fleming's amazing debut not about the game which I did try to clear up. Glad they covered some of the college scene which is normally a very minor part of the site.

Yes it is a good site. I actually have several friends that have had articles published on it :)

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24 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Marta is an odious individual. She is not only a very dirty player but is also one of the biggest cheats and whiners I have ever seen.

How about changing it to "Female Messi". I like that much better. Not only is it more complimentary to her skill but Messi is also a person that any player would be proud to emulate.

In spite of it all Marta was named FIFA Best World Player of the Year five times, 2006 to 2010.  Messi seems to have some serious tax evasion issues at present.  I prefer Fleming just be known as Jessie, no comparison with any other player.  She is earning her own title all by herself.

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