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Hanson Boakai

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1 hour ago, toontownman said:

Was he a citizen of Liberia when he played for us at the u17 world cup? If he isnt he can't switch i think?

Wouldn't matter as long as he was "FIFA eligible" ie. born there, or his parents or grandparents were.

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5 hours ago, jpg75 said:

Wouldn't matter as long as he was "FIFA eligible" ie. born there, or his parents or grandparents were.

Actually this isn't so cut and dry. We've had some issues here in Hong Kong with players who fit that "FIFA eligible" criteria but did not actually attempt to take up HK residence/citizenship prior to representing another country.

Edited by BCM

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23 minutes ago, BCM said:

Actually this isn't so cut and dry. We've had some issues here in Hong Kong with players who fit that "FIFA eligible" criteria but did not actually attempt to take up HK residence/citizenship prior to representing another country.

Were they FIFA eligible through birth right or naturalization?

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16 hours ago, yothat said:

^^ talking about matt lam?

No actually I wasn't. I wasn't involved in that one but yes this would have come up. This was very likely the case as, if I recall, another issue of uncertainty was whether Matt would have to give up his Canadian passport in order to acquire a HK SAR passport. But I have dealt with more than a few "FIFA eligible" cases - meaning parent or grandparent born in HK - where they have played for another country at youth level but before they have acquired their HK ID card and passport. I'm telling you, it is not as cut and dried as @jpg75 suggests ... and for countries that do not allow dual citizens, it is a huge headache.

Edited by BCM

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16 hours ago, jpg75 said:

BCM, what were the obstacles that were faced in those cases? What were the arguments FIFA made against your clients?

Reading Articles 5(1), 6(1), 7 and 8(1)(a) together:

6(1) is on dual-nationals and includes the parents/grandparents inclusion, but it refers back to Article 5 which limits Article 6(1) to  players "holding a permanent nationality";

7 is on acquiring a "new nationality", and how it is possible if parent/grandparent is born in the relevant territory or five years post-age 18 (and we are familiar with the common exemptions for this rule for normal migration with parents at a young age) -- note too Article 7(a) includes the possibility of acquiring citizenship later for someone born in the territory - it does not presume citizenship;

8(1)(a) is where the player has represented a country other than in an "A" level match, and where "he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play".

The issue has been where someone may be eligible for the nationality but not obtained it. FIFA seems to be tight (although not consistent) that eligible is not "holding"/"already had". But maybe it is rational to be inconsistent - whether someone "holds" citizenship through parentage or it is dependent on filing forms and "acquiring" citizenship by parentage will differ between and among nations. So eligibility may differ depending on the laws of the parentage country... For example, whether a child born in Canada to a Hungarian parent is Hungarian will depend on the laws of Hungary - maybe it is automatic, or maybe the child is eligible and must be granted citizenship through application. If the application is not made, the child does not and will never "hold" Hungarian citizenship.

And as a disclaimer, I've done work representing the Hong Kong FA on a few of these issues but never represented a player directly as a client (maybe that's splitting hairs, but needed to say it). I'm also not a sports lawyer, just interested person in a place with no sports law experts.

PS - This issue may not even be clear in domestic law. That US presidential candidate born in Canada was claiming he was automatically a US citizen because his father had US citizenship at the time of his birth. Very debatable, even among US constitutional lawyers, and certainly not the "consensus" opinion in years past.

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1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

So is Canada a country that automatically grants citizenship to the foreign-born children of it's citizens?

 

58 minutes ago, matty said:

depends on if they were citizens at time of birth (mostly) i believe

@jpg75

If Canada automatically grants citizenship at birth to children of citizens (apart from any registration and approval system) than yes, that child would "hold" citizenship at birth. I'm unsure if this is the case.

Anecdotally, I applied for Australian citizenship by descent for my second child, and even though everything I read (including on government websites) says it is automatic, the citizenship has to be approved and on the Australian citizen certificate the date of citizenship is not birth or date of application but the date of the approval letter. So really, until application and approval I'd say my child did not "hold" the citizenship.

@matty

If the parents were not citizens at the time of the child's birth,  the child clearly would not be a citizen at birth. There is a caveat here - if the parents are permanent residents the law may very well grant the child citizenship. Would need to check, and it would get tricky.

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4 minutes ago, BCM said:

If the parents were not citizens at the time of the child's birth,  the child clearly would not be a citizen at birth. There is a caveat here - if the parents are permanent residents the law may very well grant the child citizenship. Would need to check, and it would get tricky.

I thought there was something relating to refugee status and birth.

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Probably worth checking the government's website for this sort of thing:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=365&top=5

Looks like as long as somebody was born to a Canadian citizen before April 17, 2009 they probably were citizens at birth. After that the rules tightened up a bit.

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According to Wiki:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberian_nationality_law

Under the terms of Chapter 20 of the Aliens and Nationality Law (based on Article 27(b) of the Constitution), citizenship applies to any "person who is a Negro, or of Negro descent, born in Liberia and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" or "person born outside Liberia whose father (i) was born a citizen of Liberia; (ii) was a citizen of Liberia at the time of the birth of such child, and (iii) had resided in Liberia prior to the birth of such child.”

Edited by jpg75

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10 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Probably worth checking the government's website for this sort of thing:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=365&top=5

Looks like as long as somebody was born to a Canadian citizen before April 17, 2009 they probably were citizens at birth. After that the rules tightened up a bit.

These changes are a copy of the Australian law, and entirely reasonable. But caused alarm here in HK. The aim is to stop citizenship by descent beyond the next generation. If you were born in Canada or naturalised, your kids get citizenship. If you are a citizen by descent, your kids don't get it. Before this, it seemed to continue on and on. So you'd have great-grandma spending two years in Canada and becoming a citizen before returning to HK (or elsewhere) and every generation thereafter receiving citizenship even if they had never stepped foot in the country.

Anyway, like I said earlier though - be careful with information websites - the Australian government website also says "citizen at birth" but that is not what it says on my daughter's actual citizenship certificate.

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10 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

According to Wiki:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberian_nationality_law

Under the terms of Chapter 20 of the Aliens and Nationality Law (based on Article 27(b) of the Constitution), citizenship applies to any "person who is a Negro, or of Negro descent, born in Liberia and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" or "person born outside Liberia whose father (i) was born a citizen of Liberia; (ii) was a citizen of Liberia at the time of the birth of such child, and (iii) had resided in Liberia prior to the birth of such child.”

Coming back to Hanson, if he is/was eligible for Liberia he may not be for much longer. Looking at that same Wikipedia page, there are several ways to lose citizenship:

- Voting in a foreign election. You voted, Hanson? If so, you're not Liberian.

  - Acquiring another citizenship, with the caveat "The minor child (under 21) of Liberian parents naturalised abroad, provided that the child returns to Liberia to establish permanent residence before the 23rd birthday." So Hanson, you plan on establishing permanent residency in Liberia before age 23? 

So this is really a non-issue. Liberia basically prohibits dual citizenship, but offers children of Liberians born abroad some time to decide. Hanson's time is running short...

Moreover, on another website which reviews citizenship laws of every country it has the following:

"DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exception: Child may keep dual citizenship before reaching the age of majority (18). Upon reaching majority age, the person must renounce any other citizenship.

LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP:

INVOLUNTARY: The following is grounds for involuntary loss of Liberian citizenship: Person above the age of majority (18) acquires a foreign citizenship."

So in that case he is already lost citizenship.

 

Hanson is also clearly not a citizen of Guinea:

- "Birth within the territory of Guinea does not automatically confer citizenship." - seems you need one parent to be a citizen to obtain citizenship.

- "DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED."

- INVOLUNTARY LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP: The following is grounds for involuntary loss of Guinean citizenship: The person voluntarily acquires a foreign citizenship."

 

Edited by BCM

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I'm sure if Liberia want him badly enough for their NT they'll bend their rules.

Anyways, here's hoping Hanson turns things around and becomes an important part of our NT.

Edited by jpg75

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3 hours ago, jpg75 said:

So is Canada a country that automatically grants citizenship to the foreign-born children of it's citizens?

My son was born (in 2011) in the Czech Republic and was granted Canadian citizenship.  However, since he was not born in Canada, he cannot pass on Canadian citizenship to his children which I think is reasonable.

Edited by Toje

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14 minutes ago, badname22 said:

How much has he been playing in Romania this season? 

Tough to tell since the UTA website is shit. I checked their match reports on Google, but they don't have the names of the players who subbed into the match. I can tell you that Boakai has not started for them though.

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It seems UTA Arad has money problems and they do not have enough to pay foreign players. I think the club was supposed to have a meeting a few days ago to discuss the situation with the foreign players.

http://glsa.ro/arad/280912-a-reaparut-si-boakai-in-alb-rosu-dar-despartirea-de-el-si-svedkauskas-e-iminenta.html

Google translate is not always the best, but it seems to make sense with the translation.

Edited by Toje

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5 hours ago, Toje said:

It seems UTA Arad has money problems and they do not have enough to pay foreign players. I think the club was supposed to have a meeting a few days ago to discuss the situation with the foreign players.

http://glsa.ro/arad/280912-a-reaparut-si-boakai-in-alb-rosu-dar-despartirea-de-el-si-svedkauskas-e-iminenta.html

Google translate is not always the best, but it seems to make sense with the translation.

I mean, at this point he just has to wait a year before the CPL starts.

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