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On 11/10/2017 at 4:13 PM, Chad_Impact said:

 

Edit: I should mention the fact that the tower is already undergoing huge renovations because TD is moving their offices in there, and the whole area around the stadium is being renovated as well. The only thing left to do would be to actually renovate the stadium itself. 

I believe it's Desjardins moving there not TD.

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Mexican press indicates FIFA may change 2022 venue . ( sorry the article is in Spanish . It refers that due diplomatics problems in Qatar , the World Cup 2022 may be hosted in USA-Canada-Mexico )

 

http://www.record.com.mx/futbol-futbol-nacional-seleccion-mexicana/mundial-de-mexico-eu-canada-se-adelantaria-2022

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41 minutes ago, xabuep2 said:

Mexican press indicates FIFA may change 2022 venue . ( sorry the article is in Spanish . It refers that due diplomatics problems in Qatar , the World Cup 2022 may be hosted in USA-Canada-Mexico )

 

http://www.record.com.mx/futbol-futbol-nacional-seleccion-mexicana/mundial-de-mexico-eu-canada-se-adelantaria-2022

I heard it was just Mexico and the USA getting it if this happened, but i’m hoping your link is right

Edited by canta15

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3 minutes ago, canta15 said:

I heard it was just Mexico and the USA getting it if this happened, but i’m hoping your link is right

To be fair, Morocco should get 2022 if they do move. Likely won't happen

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1 minute ago, jpg75 said:

* yawn* The same crap all the time. <insert country> is going to lose <insert event> because of <insert reason>. How did that work with the 2004 Olympics, 2010 WC, 2014 WC, 2014 Winter Olympics, 2016 Olympics etc.? I'd bet the house the 2022 WC will be in Qatar.

Massive difference between Qatar and any of those but I agree it likely won't happen

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2 minutes ago, matty said:

Massive difference between Qatar and any of those but I agree it likely won't happen

What's so massive about the differences? At least the stadiums are built on time. No one seems to care about dead Nepalese construction workers in the Zurich ivory tower. Geo-political tension? Meh, neighbourly squabbles. Playing in the winter? Great vacation get away! 

The only time a WC has been taken away from a host was due to WWII and the only other time a host changed was when Colombia gave up the duties in 1986.

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Just now, jpg75 said:

What's so massive about the differences? At least the stadiums are built on time. No one seems to care about dead Nepalese construction workers in the Zurich ivory tower. Geo-political tension? Meh, neighbourly squabbles. Playing in the winter? Great vacation get away! 

The only time a WC has been taken away from a host was due to WWII and the only other time a host changed was when Colombia gave up the duties in 1986.

The massive difference is they would likely have an entire region boycott which is something FIFA mostly does not want.

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Just now, matty said:

The massive difference is they would likely have an entire region boycott which is something FIFA mostly does not want.

Big whoop. Remember the 1984 Olympics? Huge success. The rest of the world will come out and over pay to watch the games. Besides, it's an opportunity to milk the Qataris for more perks and favours in 5 years time.

The only thing that will stop this WC from happening is a Shia-Sunni all-out war in the middle east.

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1 minute ago, canta15 said:

“likely” really? It’s still the World Cup

Yea which is why if an entire region boycotted FIFA would be pissed.

1 minute ago, jpg75 said:

Big whoop. Remember the 1984 Olympics? Huge success. The rest of the world will come out and over pay to watch the games. Besides, it's an opportunity to milk the Qataris for more perks and favours in 5 years time.

The only thing that will stop this WC from happening is a Shia-Sunni all-out war in the middle east.

I'm not shocked you're dismissive but FIFA reportedly wants a Nobel Peace Prize and a boycott of this region would fuck that and make them look worse then they already are.

That said I do fully agree with you that this cup will happen (partly cause I don't think a boycott will happen).

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1 hour ago, matty said:

I'm not shocked you're dismissive but FIFA reportedly wants a Nobel Peace Prize and a boycott of this region would fuck that and make them look worse then they already are.

That said I do fully agree with you that this cup will happen (partly cause I don't think a boycott will happen).

Delusions of Nobel prizes aside, i don't see how pulling the WC from Qatar achieves peace? I'd argue it probably adds fuel to the fire and the Qataris would seek revenge against the we-cooperate-with-Israel-now Saudis.

FIFA aren't dumb, there are 4 years to go and they realize a lot can happen between now and then to resolve itself. In fact it might give them an opportunity for Football diplomacy to bring the rivals together and look like the good guys, thus earning Nobel points.

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1 minute ago, jpg75 said:

Delusions of Nobel prizes aside, i don't see how pulling the WC from Qatar achieves peace? I'd argue it probably adds fuel to the fire and the Qataris would seek revenge against the we-cooperate-with-Israel-now Saudis.

FIFA aren't dumb, there are 4 years to go and they realize a lot can happen between now and then to resolve itself. In fact it might give them an opportunity for Football diplomacy to bring the rivals together and look like the good guys, thus earning Nobel points.

The Qatar thing as a whole damages that already but going in when NO ONE in the region wants anything to do with Qatar really damages a lot of FIFA's goals with this World Cup. Now like you said a lot can happen. I don't see them not going forward with this but I think if a dozen countries threatened a boycott and were serious about it (including banning the event from TV), FIFA would be concerned especially after everything that's happened with this bid.

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1 hour ago, matty said:

The Qatar thing as a whole damages that already but going in when NO ONE in the region wants anything to do with Qatar really damages a lot of FIFA's goals with this World Cup. Now like you said a lot can happen. I don't see them not going forward with this but I think if a dozen countries threatened a boycott and were serious about it (including banning the event from TV), FIFA would be concerned especially after everything that's happened with this bid.

It's not a dozen countries though, it's only 4 (Saudi, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain) and with a very limited economic impact to a WC.

edit: I assume your dozen countries includes those who have recalled their ambassadors. I seriously doubt all of these countries would boycott the WC, especially if they qualify.

Edited by jpg75

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1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

It's not a dozen countries though, it's only 4 (Saudi, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain) and with a very limited economic impact to a WC.

edit: I assume your dozen countries includes those who have recalled their ambassadors. I seriously doubt all of these countries would boycott the WC, especially if they qualify.

Saudi, UAE and Egypt all pay big bucks for TV and yes I am including the expanded list that have severed or limited diplomatic ties to Qatar and like I said if they staged a serious boycott including barring the World Cup from their airwaves, refusing qualifiers, ect. that would cause FIFA concern. It's unlikely, like I said, but if it happened it would concern FIFA.

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None of these countries are going to boycott the World Cup and not enter qualifying or give up their qualification if they do qualify. Equally it is highly unlikely any of these countries would boycott the tv broadcasts. All these countries are repressive dictatorships with a lot of unrest and social problems. Their leaders would be absolutely crazy to anger their population by not putting their team in qualification or denying their citizens the chance to watch the World Cup. Saudi Arabia could try to influence FIFA in other ways but threatening to withdraw their team or not purchase the tv is a  hollow threat that FIFA is not going to fall for.

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14 hours ago, jpg75 said:

It's not a dozen countries though, it's only 4 (Saudi, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain) and with a very limited economic impact to a WC.

edit: I assume your dozen countries includes those who have recalled their ambassadors. I seriously doubt all of these countries would boycott the WC, especially if they qualify.

Of course. I mean, even Israel will go if they qualify, and if they are drawn Iran they'll play. And I bet Iran would end up playing too (though they have prohibited athletes from competiting vs. Israelis in the past).

All this is being overstated for reasons we all know, and for the whining from the Anglo-press especially about being hard done by, which I find so ridiculously slanted and a sign for poor sportsmanship as well. An Arab nation deserves the WC, it solves a major diplomatic question for FIFA for the next 30-40 years, and even with internal conflicts the WC is not going to be moved, under any circumstances. Moving it would be a message to any future bidders that small pressure groups and lobbies can make a huge investment unstable. No emerging nation would want to risk it, and the same old boys network would continue to use the same pressure tactics to serve their greed, which we have seen with England most recently (proven to be just as corrupt in these questions, and more blatantly racist, as the rivals they bitch about).

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5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Of course. I mean, even Israel will go if they qualify, and if they are drawn Iran they'll play. And I bet Iran would end up playing too (though they have prohibited athletes from competiting vs. Israelis in the past).

FIFA would likely fix the draw to avoid that happening.

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

All this is being overstated for reasons we all know, and for the whining from the Anglo-press especially about being hard done by, which I find so ridiculously slanted and a sign for poor sportsmanship as well. An Arab nation deserves the WC, it solves a major diplomatic question for FIFA for the next 30-40 years, and even with internal conflicts the WC is not going to be moved, under any circumstances. Moving it would be a message to any future bidders that small pressure groups and lobbies can make a huge investment unstable. No emerging nation would want to risk it, and the same old boys network would continue to use the same pressure tactics to serve their greed, which we have seen with England most recently (proven to be just as corrupt in these questions, and more blatantly racist, as the rivals they bitch about).

People have been critical with reason and it hasn't just been the Anglo-press. The said doing the World Cup in an Arab nation would look good but if political issues for the nation do not die down a lot of those political gains for FIFA could be lost. I don't think they'll move it unless there is a fucking war or global blockade but it could be a big pain for them.

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42 minutes ago, matty said:

FIFA would likely fix the draw to avoid that happening.

I think in the last Olympics in one of the martial arts competitions an Israeli ended up vs. an Iranian in a knock-out round, quarterr finals or something, and the Iranian refused to fight, being eliminated from the tournament. I believe she was also sanctioned. 

So I would expect FIFA to do the same, do clean draws, and if someone did not want to play a rival, then simply eliminate them. I mean, Iran has played the US in hot moments in the WC, and it was fine, there have been other cases of nations at war or with high tension who have played qualifiers and other matches, last year N and S Korea played in the East Asian championship. 

I think that FIFA fixes things enough with Israel in UEFA, which I accept as a fair decision, otherwise they would be boycotted by up to 6-8 nations for all qualifying tournaments. Let everyone deal with the consequences of playing the game after that.

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4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think in the last Olympics in one of the martial arts competitions an Israeli ended up vs. an Iranian in a knock-out round, quarterr finals or something, and the Iranian refused to fight, being eliminated from the tournament. I believe she was also sanctioned. 

So I would expect FIFA to do the same, do clean draws, and if someone did not want to play a rival, then simply eliminate them. I mean, Iran has played the US in hot moments in the WC, and it was fine, there have been other cases of nations at war or with high tension who have played qualifiers and other matches, last year N and S Korea played in the East Asian championship. 

I think that FIFA fixes things enough with Israel in UEFA, which I accept as a fair decision, otherwise they would be boycotted by up to 6-8 nations for all qualifying tournaments. Let everyone deal with the consequences of playing the game after that.

I think FIFA made sure North and South Korea didn't play in 2010 at work so can't check. Stuff may have changed if they did

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45 minutes ago, matty said:

I think FIFA made sure North and South Korea didn't play in 2010 at work so can't check. Stuff may have changed if they did

I don't see any mention of that in here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_seeding

It would seem unlikely too, because they would already be avoiding each other in the group stage since they are from the same continental federation. So the best you could do is put them in groups that won't play the first couple knockout rounds against each other.

I believe there have been cases where match ups involving countries that are hostile towards each other have been avoided in soccer tournaments before, but I can't remember when. I think the Champions League has done it (Russia vs Ukraine for example) but I'm not certain.

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3 minutes ago, Kent said:

I don't see any mention of that in here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_seeding

It would seem unlikely too, because they would already be avoiding each other in the group stage since they are from the same continental federation. So the best you could do is put them in groups that won't play the first couple knockout rounds against each other.

I believe there have been cases where match ups involving countries that are hostile towards each other have been avoided in soccer tournaments before, but I can't remember when. I think the Champions League has done it (Russia vs Ukraine for example) but I'm not certain.

Yea that's what I was referring to, they we place i a way that they only way to meet would be deep in the cup. It's been years and it might have just been internet chatter since there's no mention of it. 

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They played in the East Asian Cup just a few years ago, as I said. The women played an Asia Cup qualifier a few months ago too, and I think could have met in that recent u-17 tournament in Jordan, if I am not mistaken. I am going on what I remember from that, why bother looking it up. 

Obviously if you do not want to play against a rival in a competition that allows that rival in, then you forfeit, easy as that.

BTW the rabid anti-Qatar rhetoric in the English press is unmatched elsewhere, it is a specifically Anglo thing in general terms. And we know where it comes from, the country that sits on the International Board and supposedly has to set the example for the rest of the world to defend the game's integrity. The only complaints in Spain have been about heat and then scheduling, plus abuses against workers doing the building. But not against Qatar per se. 

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29 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

They played in the East Asian Cup just a few years ago, as I said. The women played an Asia Cup qualifier a few months ago too, and I think could have met in that recent u-17 tournament in Jordan, if I am not mistaken. I am going on what I remember from that, why bother looking it up. 

Obviously if you do not want to play against a rival in a competition that allows that rival in, then you forfeit, easy as that.

Yea we've kind of settled that issue

29 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

BTW the rabid anti-Qatar rhetoric in the English press is unmatched elsewhere, it is a specifically Anglo thing in general terms. And we know where it comes from, the country that sits on the International Board and supposedly has to set the example for the rest of the world to defend the game's integrity. The only complaints in Spain have been about heat and then scheduling, plus abuses against workers doing the building. But not against Qatar per se. 

Yes western English media is critical but it's not exclusive to English, Canadian and American outlets in the English world (I think you'll find RT and CGTN have also covered it). On top of that there's been a strong amount of reporting from non-English outlets including Spain (where my partner is from) over Qatar's handling of the worker situation and exploring alleged corruption.

Adding to that a number of non-English organizations (including Arabic ones) have been critical of the event.

Anyways I think our argument is dumb because we both pretty much agree these games are happening in Qatar regardless of everything.

Edited by matty

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